Revolver Classifications

[KBak303]

Morning, group:

I've been out of the game much too long, but then the new job, graduate school and family had to come first (in other words..my last classifer was 3 years ago!)

Being out, I've grown ignorant, and hoped some of the Cylinder Guru's out there could answer a question on classifying. I did a search on the forums, but to no avail.

Are revolver classifications figured on the highest revolver hit factors? I guess what I am asking is that, regardless of class, your classification is only based on what is going on in THAT class..yes? (revolver vs. revolver, production vs. production, etc)

I know this sounds like a rookie question, but forgive me. Revolver is going to be it, i only own one auto anymore, and it's at the gunsmith being rebuilt as we speak. However I own a great 625 a great friend used to own before he concentrated on a 610, and everything else is the safe is round gun as well (only type of gun the wife will shoot!)

sorry for the long post..shaking the dust off. Now to find some local clubs again. seems they are drying up in this neck of the woods.

thanks

KenB

[Carmoney]

Welcome back, Ken. Sounds like your story is somewhat similar to mine. I returned to competitive handgunning last year after a 9-year "vacation." Back in the old days I was never a serious IPSC shooter, actually shot only a few local matches, but I was big into shooting pins and steel (mostly pins). I am having a blast learning how to do all sorts of new stuff (such as the draw, the speed reload, shooting on the move, stage break-down, etc.) that is required in IPSC, and although I have guns suitable for several other divisions, I've always preferred shooting revolvers and single-stack 1911s.

Getting to your question--it's come up here on the forum before, and people have differing opinions, but I'm fairly certain that the high hit factors USPSA uses for the revolver division are not true hit factors, but merely some percentage off those used in Limited, or something like that. On the classifiers that are 6-round neutral, they're not too far off the mark. On the classifiers where an extra reload is forced on revo shooters (quite a few of those in the new 03- series, I've noticed), the high hit factors appear to be too high to be realistic. On at least one occasion a few months back, I figured out the high hit factor, it seemed ridiculously fast to the point of being impossible, I got on the forum here and said "c'mon, even Jerry can't do that," and I received no argument.

One thing I have learned this past year--there are usually nowhere near enough revolvers at any match to have the classification thing really become meaningful. If you're shooting Limited and you're a B, you can usually do great battle with all the other Limited B shooters at a sectional or area match, shoot for the prize or plaque or whatever. In revo, the only way to have meaningful competition is just to realize you're shooting heads-up against everybody else with a wheelgun. Sam Keen (Hopalong) told me this last fall, and I've come to agree completely. So I would give you the same advice he gave me--just shoot your best, don't worry about the class thing, since it won't really matter in the long run.

Whereabouts do you shoot?

Mike

[hopalong]

Ken,

Welcome back, and welcome to the forums.

The revolver classifiers are not Revolver only!!! It is based on some Rocket science over at USPSA HQ that they think should compare revolver scores to Limited.

Limited 10 and Production are kind of the same but different.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that is pretty much how it is in a nutshell.

Revolver participation is slowly growing, as I have seen more at the major matches this year (the ones I have attended) than the past year.

We set a record at the OHIO match with 20, up until then the most even at the USPSA nationals was 19.

This year there are 20 entered for the USPSA Nationals. getting better little by little.

Again, Welcome back hope to see you somewhere. (where are you located anyway)

Hopalong

[KBak303]

(where are you located anyway)

Hopalong

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm in Wichita Falls, North Texas Section and in Area 4. I've shot alot with Jack Graham (a revolver master) in the past, but I've lost contact with him to see where he's been shooting at lately.

I was curious as to classifications...I would think that they would all be based on what Mr. Jerry shoots..but I realize now that is a very simplistic, black and white view of the world.

I also realize that around here, if I find a match, I'll probably be the only revolver around here. The two clubs I used to shoot at are not affiliated anymore. As far as I know, Double Tap Ranch and SCRAP in Stephens County Oklahoma are the only 'driving distance' clubs now (SCRAP is 1.5 hrs one way by the time you hit their gate) May have to schedule some in-law visits to have a handy place to visit the OKC clubs

Thanks for the replies guys, time to shake the dust off the cylinder and get some practice in before I head out to my first. Might be ready by next year to shoot some big ones and actually shoot with some more revolvers!

[Bubber]

Kbak303, Not to Hijack your thread, but try to make it to Scrap about the 17th of July for the Revolver match. Jack shot there a couple of years ago, the last one was a rainout and rescheduled twice, and he will probably show up there. I plan on making it so I can be whupped up on good. Here is the link< I hope, Srap Revo later rdd

[KBak303]

Kbak303, Not to Hijack your thread, but try to make it to Scrap about the 17th of July for the Revolver match.  Jack shot there a couple of years ago, the last one was a rainout and rescheduled twice, and he will probably show up there.  I plan on making it so I can be whupped up on good.  Here is the link< I hope,  Srap Revo later rdd

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hey Bubber..no apologies nec.

I saw that..i may head up to watch...but as long as it's been since I handled any firearm, not just the round gun, I better hold off before I shoot myself in the foot

I'll see u up there next year

KenB

[Azone41]

Saw Jack yesterday at Double-Tap He was shooting production. ITPSC is located just outside of Altus 3rd sat matches about 1.15 hrs from wichita falls. Web site is ITPSC.net. Hope to see you there

[Patrick Sweeney]

If you want to have fun shooting a wheelgiun, and know where you stand, pick a Limited 10 shooter in your squad who seems at your skill level. Then treat the match as a heads-up match between the two of you. If you have someone at your club that fits this description, great. Just be sure they're cool with being dogged by the wheelgunner. when you can consistenly beat him or her, pick the next one up the standings ladder and go for it.

[D.carden]

Hey Pat,

Thats what I do with a few of our shooters.

I dont think any bottom feeder wants a Revo "nipping at there heals", but it gives you something to compare to.

Dan

[Jerry V]

Heck, I've been dogging a Open shooter

But that's only because he makes the most comments about my revolver ... but does so in good taste

Thanks Pat, that good advice.

[professor]

(where are you located anyway)

Hopalong

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was curious as to classifications...I would think that they would all be based on what Mr. Jerry shoots..but I realize now that is a very simplistic, black and white view of the world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Revolver High Hit Factors for the 99 series were set at 90% of the Limited HHFs. [Production was 95% of Ltd, and L10 was 100% of Ltd]. With the new 03 series of classifiers, the revolver HHFs are set at 70% of Ltd HHF. [Production = 85%, L10 = 95%]. There are some exceptions.

None of the HHFs for the 3 new divisions were ever based on actual shooting results.

Consequently, none of the HHFs reflect the extra reloads required of revolver shooters, which happens frequently on the new classifier COFs. If anything, the 70% factor might make it easier to score high classifier percentages, IF no extra reloads are rqd, but the numbers are still not realistic, and probably won't be until the factors are based on actual performance.

[redmist10]

I wonder if enough revolver shooters pushed themselves at the classifiers and achieved a higher rating if the folks that administer the classification process would consider using our own data...meaning, I've heard that a few revo guys purposely "tank" classifiers or slow down so they don't move up. I'm not saying they're sandy just not in a real big hurry to move up in class.

I'm sure it happens in every division but we're sort of lacking the high numbers to compensate for that attitude. I mean, if revolver classifications are roughly considered 90% of Production or Limited and a large percentage of the revolver guys moved to the higher levels it might even the playing field and justify using our data as opposed to mooching off of other divisions.

...or maybe that's just bunk.

[Carmoney]

I've heard that a few revo guys purposely "tank" classifiers or slow down so they don't move up. I'm not saying they're sandy just not in a real big hurry to move up in class.

Steve, I really don't think so. Hell, there's never enough of us at a match to have the class system come into play in anything other than an arbitrary way, so I can't imagine anybody doesn't want to move up in class in Revo Division. With the increase in Revo participation, this could change. Now that we're beginning to see dozens of wheelgunners showing up at some matches instead of just a few lone wolves, sandbagging could become a factor. But never with the true pure-hearted revolver shooters like those of us on this forum!

Just for the record, we tease Dan about this, but we're purely kidding. If you ask me, he's over-achieved on his classifiers. (heh-heh!)

With 15,000+ Revolver Division classifiers on record, USPSA should have more than adequate data to give us true classifications based on our own true performance as a division. Push a couple buttons on the master computer, and voila, it's done. Somebody simply needs to talk to Dave Thomas about this, he can make it happen.

[redmist10]

No, no, no I wasn't even thinking about Dan! I've seen you guys teasing him but I wasn't even talking on a national scale. I certainly don't know him well enough to pile on by any means.

Locally, (within a couple of states) I've talked to revolver guys and heard other stuff about folks in the tri-state and other states that are not in a hurry to move and don't really push themselves to move up. All kidding aside I've heard enough genuine comments to think there is some hesitation to move up and some very cautious shooting of the classifiers to stay put.

I was just wondering if anyone thought it would help get our own percentages if there were more A & M Class revolver shooters.

Ohio only has one M Class revolver shooter and I know that guy shanks the classifiers so he doesn't move up! I've even seen him twist barrels to make the sights crooked. Some folks will do anything....shameless.

[Flexmoney]

Ohio only has one M Class revolver shooter and I know that guy shanks the classifiers so he doesn't move up! I've even seen him twist barrels to make the sights crooked. Some folks will do anything....shameless.

I pledge to improve my Revolver classification by at least 10% with the next 8 revolver classifiers I shoot.