Mountbkr Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 So I'm pondering something and need the great minds of this group for an answer. What percent increase would the recoil from a 180 gr .40 cal minor load be over 147 gr 9mm minor load? Same gun, same powder (brand, not charge), I'm sure there's an equation to calculate this and some theoretical thought also, so what say you? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Well, since it's 3:00 a.m., and all our "Great Minds" are asleep, I'll take a stab at this one. I know of no "equation to calculate this", but from a "theoretical" perspectice (actually more anecdotal), I usually shoot 147 gr 9mm minor loads in my 32 ounce BHP. When I shot a mag of .40 Major thru a GM's STI (40 ounces?), I didn't feel ANY difference in "recoil". So, the two guns were totally different, and one was minor and the other a Major load, and I didn't feel any difference - I've never been very sensitive to minor recoil differences (my .41 magnum feels different, and a .460 S&W magnum I fired once felt Different), but didn't see much difference between those two loads. I've heard that a .40 Minor in a heavy gun will feel lighter in recoil than a 9mm Minor load.... that's one reason some people shoot .40 minor rather than 9mm minor in Production. Well, I'm going to try to get back to sleep - have visions of 9mm and .40 caliber recoils. So Good Night - let's see what "the great minds" come up with when the sun comes up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 40 minor recoil will be less. Somewhat noticeable if you shoot them back to back, but not by a huge amount and not anything to lose sleep over. I shoot 40 minor in Production because I started in Limited and was set up to load 40, and because 40 cal Unicorns were much easier to find and cheaper to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 On 6/20/2017 at 7:22 PM, Mountbkr said: So I'm pondering something and need the great minds of this group for an answer. What percent increase would the recoil from a 180 gr .40 cal minor load be over 147 gr 9mm minor load? Same gun, same powder (brand, not charge), I'm sure there's an equation to calculate this and some theoretical thought also, so what say you? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Google "recoil calculator" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 So I'll share the reason for the question. Looking to shoot carry optics and I have 2 XDM 5.25 guns, ones a factory 9, the other a factory 40. Was considering shooting the 40 due to it being a slightly heavier gun, the only drawback being slightly more expensive ammo, couple lower round count mags. Just pondering the recoil differences between the two calibers being anything to factor in, didn't think there would be but just something to wonder about.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I would certainly shoot the 9 in that case Or better yet, sell them both and get a nice gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 I would certainly shoot the 9 in that case Or better yet, sell them both and get a nice gun [emoji6] What nice gun would you recommend? I'm thinking Shadow 2 might be consideration but I'm stocked on XDM holsters and mags so I would have a garage sale to fund something new. Why would you say 9? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jliew08 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Use the 9mm. The extra rounds will be more beneficial than the recoil of shooting 40 minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, Mountbkr said: What nice gun would you recommend? I'm thinking Shadow 2 might be consideration but I'm stocked on XDM holsters and mags so I would have a garage sale to fund something new. Why would you say 9? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'm just an XDM hater. If you like it, go for it. I'd say 9 for sure solely based on capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, jliew08 said: Use the 9mm. The extra rounds will be more beneficial than the recoil of shooting 40 minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, waktasz said: I'm just an XDM hater. If you like it, go for it. Yeah i thought that was the case, ha ha. Seems like quite a few people feel that way, i'm sure i'll figure out why at some point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 On 6/21/2017 at 3:06 AM, Hi-Power Jack said: Well, since it's 3:00 a.m., and all our "Great Minds" are asleep, I'll take a stab at this one. I know of no "equation to calculate this", but from a "theoretical" perspectice (actually more anecdotal), I usually shoot 147 gr 9mm minor loads in my 32 ounce BHP. When I shot a mag of .40 Major thru a GM's STI (40 ounces?), I didn't feel ANY difference in "recoil". So, the two guns were totally different, and one was minor and the other a Major load, and I didn't feel any difference - I've never been very sensitive to minor recoil differences (my .41 magnum feels different, and a .460 S&W magnum I fired once felt Different), but didn't see much difference between those two loads. I've heard that a .40 Minor in a heavy gun will feel lighter in recoil than a 9mm Minor load.... that's one reason some people shoot .40 minor rather than 9mm minor in Production. Well, I'm going to try to get back to sleep - have visions of 9mm and .40 caliber recoils. So Good Night - let's see what "the great minds" come up with when the sun comes up thanks Hi-Power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 If you want numbers yo compare, I need the following; bullet weight bullet velocity powder charde gun weight for each Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 If you want numbers yo compare, I need the following; bullet weight bullet velocity powder charde gun weight for each GuyThanks for the offer, I found the calculator online. I had googled but didn't get the right wording to find it the first time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Mountbkr said: I found the calculator online. What was the answer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 9mm 147 gr 925 fps 135 pf recoil impulse-.68 lbs sec recoil velocity-7.31 fps recoil energy-2.49 ft lbs 40 cal 180 gr 725 fps 135 pf recoil impulse-.67 lbs sec recoil velocity-7.19 fps recoil energy-2.41 ft lbs In comparison: 40 cal 180 gr 950 fps 171 pf recoil impulse-.85 lbs sec recoil velocity-9.07 fps recoil energy-3.84 ft lbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Wonder how the .40 major would make out in a heavier (STI) gun ... ? The only .40 major I shot, in an STI, felt about the same as my 9mm minor loads in my BHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 Wonder how the .40 major would make out in a heavier (STI) gun ... ? The only .40 major I shot, in an STI, felt about the same as my 9mm minor loads in my BHP.I used 36 oz gun for all of these for what it's worthSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Do these values include the powder charge? Did they way what gas velocity they use? My numbers vary a bit - though it is generally a relative comparison. Looking at the Major load, for example, using your 36 ounce (2.3 pound) gun, I have the momentum as 0.85, as they show, but the gun velocity I show as 12.1 fps. The corresponding recoil energy using the bullet alone, with no powder is 4.1 ft-lbs. Assuming 5 grains of powder and a gas velocity of 4000 fps, recoil becomes 5.1 ft-lbs by my calculation. Did they list the equation? The calculation as shown in several references is a momentum balance to determine the gun velocity, then using that in the energy equation. Thanks. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 I see one mistake I made, I used 3 lbs for gun weight, not 36 oz, my bad.Yes it asked for powder charge as well. I used 3.2 gr for the 40 minor, 3.5 for 9, and 4.2 for 40 majSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 I see one mistake I made, I used 3 lbs for gun weight, not 36 oz, my bad.Yes it asked for powder charge as well. I used 3.2 gr for the 40 minor, 3.5 for 9, and 4.2 for 40 majSent from my iPhone using Tapatalkhttp://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.phpSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 With the 36 ounce gun, and the values you give, I find; Cartridge 9mm 40 40 Minor Minor Major Bullet 147 180 180 Velocity 925 725 950 Charge 3.5 3.2 4.2 Momentum 0.67 0.64 0.84 Gun Velocity 9.5 9.1 11.9 Recoil (no charge) 2.6 2.4 4.1 Recoil (with charge) 3.2 2.9 5.0 Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 With the 36 ounce gun, and the values you give, I find; Cartridge 9mm 40 40 Minor Minor Major Bullet 147 180 180 Velocity 925 725 950 Charge 3.5 3.2 4.2 Momentum 0.67 0.64 0.84 Gun Velocity 9.5 9.1 11.9 Recoil (no charge) 2.6 2.4 4.1 Recoil (with charge) 3.2 2.9 5.0 GuySlight differences then, what site or method did you use to calculate? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 I calculate directly, beginning with finding the gun velocity with a momentum balance. The gun momentum equals the ejecta momentum (bullet plus powder gases. Once the gun velocity is obtained, insert it in the kinetic energy formula to get the free recoil energy. It's described in Hatcher's Notebook as well as some other sources. I've attached a brief description.Momentum balance I put it into a spreadsheet some time back. I hope it's helpful Guy Recoil Calc 6-23-17.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountbkr Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 I calculate directly, beginning with finding the gun velocity with a momentum balance. The gun momentum equals the ejecta momentum (bullet plus powder gases. Once the gun velocity is obtained, insert it in the kinetic energy formula to get the free recoil energy. It's described in Hatcher's Notebook as well as some other sources. I've attached a brief description.Momentum balance I put it into a spreadsheet some time back. I hope it's helpful GuyRecoil Calc 6-23-17.pdfThanks, that's way above my pay grade ha ha. I depend on google too much.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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