Bombing Classifiers

[bufit323]

I am still pretty new to all this, I have been getting serious about production shooting for the last couple of months, I made some attempts at L10 with subpar equipment prior to this. My question is:

Why do I shoot stages on par of 85%-95% of A and M shooters on most stages, then I hit the classifier and bomb the hell out of it?

I think that I intentionally try harder on these stages, try to rip it out so that I can move up in class. I would love the advice of some experienced fellows, it is obviously in my head, but hey, isn't all of it.

[j1b]

You're right, it is all in the head.

I wonder, when we shoot major matches, if we even know what stage actually is the classifier? My point being that often times we dictate the importance of a stage and at a major match clearly every stage is important so the "classifier" factor goes away.

Many times at the club level the tendency is to shoot the match, but to try and nail the classifier. I wonder if the approach were similar to a major match in that every stage were as critical as the next if that would change?

I don't know.

I do know that I don't have much faith in the classification system and by virtue of that I care a lot less about my classifier scores. Granted I'd love to have a GM card in Lim-10 - but if it doesn't happen I'll get over it. I'd much rather be in contention at the match

J

[stingerjg]

I always tend to crash and burn my classifier stages at big matches. The only ones i do well in are those at club level, shot before, or knew about them ahead of time so i could practice them first.

[Jake Di Vita]

I didn't make GM till I treated the classifier like any other stage...

[Flyin40]

I shot a good score on a classifier today. I shot it like every other stage, makin sure I see the dot.

Flyin40

[Stuck in C]

I've been doing this for three years, and I do exactly the same thing. It has to be mental, but I can't seem to change. Although some of it may be that many of the field courses are quite different than the classifiers. The majority of the classifiers, especially the older ones, are speed shoots-stand and shoot. And the the older ones are almost all Virginia count-no extra shots or makeup shots and real easy to get procedurals because of strictly defined COF's. 90% of what I shoot are field courses with two rounds per target and wide open as to how you shoot a given stage-and then we come to a Virginia count classifier with one round per target, no extra shots and hits and all kinds of specified actions during the course (mandatory reloads, recite the Gettysberg Address between strings, etc).

[Flexmoney]

Anybody that bombs the "big stage" needs to read the Lanny Bassham book...right freakin' now!

Steve Anderson carries it...With Winning In Mind (click here)

[Ron Ankeny]

I have only shot a few matches of any consequence (above level 1) and in all of them I did very well on the speed shoots, classifier (if they had one), and/or standards. On the flip side, I was only in the middle of pack on the field courses. The reason is because I am one of those "stand and deliver" from "Box A" shooters. Trust me, no one wants to be in that boat in this sport unless letters on a card mean more than shooting respectably across the board.

Here's the deal on a classifier. Typically, the classifer only tests the shooter for a decent draw, good fire control, a split that isn't measured by a sun dial, transitions, and maybe a reload. There is seldom if ever any strategy involved other than figuring out the most comfortable/efficient engagement order. In short, a classifier will be the the most simplistic course in the match. They are the ultimate no brainers.

So why is the classifier the most commonly tanked stage for most shooters? It's usually one of two causes, the "hero or zero" approach that so many shooters, seem to use, or a poor mental game. Frankly I think it's most often the "hero or zero" approach. People seem to get in a big hurry to "move up" so they just "turn the badger loose" as Sam would say. The result is to either crash and burn, or rip a score that leads to a classification they will not be able to live up to on match day.

If I were to do it all over again, I would treat a classifier like any other stage instead of going for that 100% every time I LAMR. It feels good doing well on a classifier and knowing you can repeat the score on demand. Unfortunately, many of us seem to want more.

If the problem is a poor mental game and you fold under pressure, the answer is a bit more complicated but like flex said, it's in Lanny's book.

[Sam]

bufit, everyone is giving you excellent advice.

One thing that I've noticed about this sport is that we are mostly "go for broke" personality types. It seems like nearly everyone has a background in some sort of racing, martial arts, extreme sports, ect. Its very easy to allow our desire to excell to overwhelm our preparedness to do so.

When shooting classifiers or important matches, it is crucial that we know and accept our level of ability. Stated another way, how can I go beyond where I am if I keep refusing to accept where I am? (If I was actually in wilderness, but fully believed myself to be in St. Louie, almost anyone could recognize that I was lost.) So, if I keep projecting my ability to some place I "will" it to be in the future, then I'm failing miserably right now where I am. Is this not what happens when we tank a stage? We think about how good we want to be instead of how good we actually are? Now is all there is. All else is total illusion. We can never be any better than we are now. Hopefully, if we pay very careful attention to this now, some other now that comes along farther down the road will find us shooting alot better.

[ima45dv8]

To me, one of the most meaningful Bonedaddyisms, and it fits this topic perfectly, is post #15 in this thread.

In fact I copied it when I first read it and have had it hanging on my wall for some time. I think it helped me see that my flaming Crashifiers weren't so much a result of letting these classifier stages rent space in my head, but rather I was letting what I want to be rent space in my head.

Thanks for the words, Sam.

....Mark

[j1b]

I shot with Jamie Craig this weekend - Jamie and I go way back. We both came into the sport around the same time frame, both seemed to move up at about the same pace and ended up talking a lot about how to shoot.

So this weekend we get together for the first time in many years and David Hyden was nice enough to squad us together even though he was shooting open and I was shooting Lim-10.

It was great to talk through the evolution of maturity that Sam alludes to in his post. Jamie shot a clean match - very consistent and strong the whole way through. All day long we're talking it up about the difference between the two of us today versus many years ago. Jamie remarked several times during the day how much he loved shooting open, how easy the gun was to shoot. One simple stage he walks off and he's like "I spent all that time pushing myself to go faster and faster. Here I just got up there, relaxed, and rocked that stage without trying to do anything at all" While not exactly profound, it exemplifies what Sam was saying. He just stood up there and shot. As it turned out that is probably what lead to his great performance.

Seemed to fit in this thread.

J

[Sam]

Jack, that must have been a heck of a cool reunion!

L-10 Baby! (Would you believe I actually have people giving me grief because I'm shooting L-10 this year?)

Mark, I've got quite a few Forumisms taped up in my gun room too. Sometimes somebody shares a thought that I've been needing, but haven't been able to bring to the surface. Then Bam! I get it when I read another shooter's post.

This place is like a greenhouse for shooting development.

[Flexmoney]

Let me ask this...

How is a classifier different?

[ima45dv8]

Let me ask this...

How is a classifier different?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking strictly for myself, I was treating them as "special" because that's how you advance in class. I know some folks have done it and are doing it based on major match performance, but most people don't get to shoot that many major events. So along comes the little course of fire that is really more than just a course of fire, you see. It's a cleaverly disguised path to the practical shooting Holy Grail! You can't just shoot it. You have to shoot it! [insert "Gollum" icon here, maniacally lusting after his Precious]. Wanting to be an A or M class shooter, I foolishly tried shooting like one whenever I came up to a classifier. Yeah, that helped a whole lot!

Then I came up with another way to screw myself into the ground with Crashifiers. I had gone from shooting B-class Lim10 exclusively to shooting Limited as a C-class shooter (I was lured away by a smokin' deal on a used SV). I just KNEW I was a B-class shooter. My card said so, right? So it should be a snap for me to make B in Limited, right? So I tried to do it as quickly as possible (damn, there's that pesky "try" word again). I tried and failed, tried and failed, and eventually had to start enduring claims of sand-bagging from people who weren't joking and who were not amused by me winning anything in C class. So naturally I tried even harder (no sense in wasting a perfect opportunity to heap a little more self-induced pressure on my problem).

Predictably, my classification percentage was going down, not up.

Then one day I stumbled across Sam's little sermon on Humility. In an instant I recognized that not only was I trying to shoot w-a-y beyond my abilities on these evil little classifier exercises, I also was ignoring the good advice I had read here so many times -- Just shoot the points and forget about the speed.

Not long after that rare moment of clarity I had a chance to shoot 6 or 7 classifiers in one month. I shot the points and didn't worry about the speed. The result was an 11 point leap in my classification percentage that landed my firmly in B class Limited. I wish it had happened one week sooner, but I'm just glad I finally got out of my own damned way and listened to what the wise people had been telling me.

...Mark

[Jake Di Vita]

But everything that you just said is all your own perception of the classifer.

How is the classifier actually different from any other stage?

It isn't.

When people finally realize that...not only their classification but their match scores as well will sky rocket.

[ima45dv8]

But everything that you just said is all your own perception of the classifer.

How is the classifier actually different from any other stage?

It isn't.

When people finally realize that...not only their classification but their match scores as well will sky rocket.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're absolutely right, Jake. It was nothing more than my own expectations and efforts that held me back. If I hadn't developed such a cock-eyed view of classifiers, blowing them way out of proportion, I could have just shot them like any other stage. That's exactly what guys like you have been telling me/us for a long time, isn't it? I could have avoided a lot of self-induced disappointment if I'd understood the message sooner.

...Mark

[Ron Ankeny]

How is a classifier different?

We want it to be different.

[kevin c]

How is a classifier different?

We want it to be different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We want it to be different, because WE want to be different?

[Stuck in C]

In the most important sense of the mental game you are right, there should be no difference between the classifier and the rest of the stages-just shoot them. However, as I mentioned in my post above there is a difference between most classifiers and most field course stages: the field courses are mainly scored Comstock and the classifiers are scored Virginia. If you call a D or mike on a Comstock target you better make it up especially if you are shooting minor (whether you make up a C is a whole different topic.) Do that in a Virginia count classifier and its -10 extra shot, -10 extra hit. Even if you don't make up shots its 2 shots per target on field courses and a lot of classifiers are one shot per target. I usually tank the classifiers due to penalties, not hits or time.

[Jake Di Vita]

Just because a stage is comstock doesn't mean its ok to shoot however many shots you want...Challenge yourself to shoot with no make up shots....

Simple math....more shots = more time.

If you are losing it on penalties, you need to work on your visual patience.