Lee bullet seating die shaving brass

[rustybayonet]

I solved my lee die shaving by using a seperate crimp die. I use the seater just for seating and keep crimp away from case. Then added a lee factory crimp die.

[ML123]

On 3/20/2016 at 1:31 PM, TDA said:

I found that throwing the Lee seating dies as far as you can, and then replacing it with a Dillon seating die immediately solves the problem...

 

I am using Lee Dies in a Dillon 750 simply because Lee was the only 9mm die set I can find available to buy these days.

 

I am having the same issue as OP with brass shavings everywhere and I did the same thing playing with the flare size on the dillon powder die to try and fix it.  I am also having issues with OAL being nowhere near consistent which I don't understand.  I called Dillon and was told 10-15 thou was acceptable when using mixed brass casings?  I just loaded my first 100rds and my OAL is all over the place as low as 1.070 all the way to 1.094.  My crimp will range .375-.377.

 

I dont think the Lee die is contacting the bullet nose correctly since I use a truncated nose BBI coated bullet?  I think its not going in squarely causing the shavings and inconsistent seating depth?

 

Would the Dillon seating die be the best choice to correct this or are there better choice?  Right now I am not sure I can get a dillon and Redding is on BO everythere I looked.  My local shop may have a Hornady in stock.  Dillon's site list the 9mm die set still on BO but had a seating die available which I ordered but will see if it comes or shows up as it shows as BO everywhere else.

 

I have the Lee die out and going to smooth out the machine marks on the entrance and I was going to back the die way out to avoid any possibility of crimping.  I had it turned out 3 turns like the instructions stated but think that is still to deep?

 

I am a total newb just getting into this due to not being able to buy ammo.  I am also learning how to reload almost completely from info on this board which has been invaluable, Thanks.

[Miranda]

howdy ml123,

you have a short list of things to do.
polish the mouths of each die your cases go through.

that cures a lot of shaving.

 

your press is likely needs to have the shell plate adjusted.
the 650 has a grub screw holding the main shell plate screw.
loosen grub tighten the shell plate screw. you want the plate to swing
freely but not rock... I use the wrench angle to guide me.
this angle is tight.. this angle is loose. often less than 45 degrees.
swing wrench to the halfway point and tighten grub screw.

this should get you COL to reasonable variation.
I use 6 thous as good and will tolerate 8 thous total variation
and I center on a couple thous longer than my COL target.
example: my COL target is 1.130 as I crank down to that target
I stop adjusting at 1.132 and run a few to see if I get steady.
then I build ammo. and check a few after I get 20 or so done.
a lot of variation means the shell plate has gotten loose.

 

things that can cause variation are case tension in the various stations,
speed and being certain to get the press full swing.

 

the shaving can be caused by the shell place indexing being off a little.
both rare and a pain in the kidney to get straight.
if you think this is a possibility, polish the die mouths again.
then call Dillon.

 

lee dies... the bullet seating is fairly good. you can get Lee to make
bullet seating inserts. I believe you can flip over the insert for a flat face
to press TC and HP bullets...

the seating Die can crimp.  It is better to crimp in a crimping die
think of the pair of dies as 'seat and a little crimping' and then 'final crimp.'
BTW your crimp of .375 is a bit tight.  aim at .379, a little smaller is ok.

my best guess is some of your crimp variation is from the overall length problem.

 

luck
miranda

[ML123]

8 hours ago, Miranda said:

howdy ml123,

you have a short list of things to do.
polish the mouths of each die your cases go through.

that cures a lot of shaving.

 

your press is likely needs to have the shell plate adjusted.
the 650 has a grub screw holding the main shell plate screw.
loosen grub tighten the shell plate screw. you want the plate to swing
freely but not rock... I use the wrench angle to guide me.
this angle is tight.. this angle is loose. often less than 45 degrees.
swing wrench to the halfway point and tighten grub screw.

this should get you COL to reasonable variation.
I use 6 thous as good and will tolerate 8 thous total variation
and I center on a couple thous longer than my COL target.
example: my COL target is 1.130 as I crank down to that target
I stop adjusting at 1.132 and run a few to see if I get steady.
then I build ammo. and check a few after I get 20 or so done.
a lot of variation means the shell plate has gotten loose.

 

things that can cause variation are case tension in the various stations,
speed and being certain to get the press full swing.

 

the shaving can be caused by the shell place indexing being off a little.
both rare and a pain in the kidney to get straight.
if you think this is a possibility, polish the die mouths again.
then call Dillon.

 

lee dies... the bullet seating is fairly good. you can get Lee to make
bullet seating inserts. I believe you can flip over the insert for a flat face
to press TC and HP bullets...

the seating Die can crimp.  It is better to crimp in a crimping die
think of the pair of dies as 'seat and a little crimping' and then 'final crimp.'
BTW your crimp of .375 is a bit tight.  aim at .379, a little smaller is ok.

my best guess is some of your crimp variation is from the overall length problem.

 

luck
miranda

Thanks Miranda you may be on to something with the shell plate adjustment and I am going to look into that tonight. 

 

I ran some more rounds last night after pulling the seating die out and cleaning it.  I don't have a bit small enough to fit inside the die opening to polish out the machine marks.  I did get most of the brass shavings to stop though by setting up the die with a round in it.  I took an existing round that measure 1.080 and put it in and screwed the die down till it just touched the case then backed it out a few turns.  I then turned the seating plunger down till it just touched the bullet then tightened the die with a case loaded in the sizing die too.  I ran about 50 rds and had almost no shavings with the die set up like that.

 

I also adjusted the bevel on the powder die smaller to .380 and made several dummy rounds with minor adjustments to seating die.  The final 4 dummy rounds were 1..755 to 1.0805 OAL crimp was .37455 to .3755.  I then loaded up and ran 50 rounds.  I took the first 13 rounds and measured them and the range for OAL  was 1.0855 to 1.0970 crimp was .3750 to .3780.  This was a little more consistent than the last rounds I ran but why was it that much more than the dummy rounds I set it up with?

 

I will loosen the crimp some but will that affect how it fits in the case gauge?  I have pulled a bunch of bullets apart and I am putting a light indentation on them with the current crimp and not breaking the coating. 

 

I haven't quite figure out why some rounds fail the case gauge but will plunk fine in my barrel.

 

I am definitely going to look at that shell plate, thanks

[HOGRIDER]

On 9/27/2020 at 6:29 AM, ML123 said:

 

I am using Lee Dies in a Dillon 750 simply because Lee was the only 9mm die set I can find available to buy these days.

 

I am having the same issue as OP with brass shavings everywhere and I did the same thing playing with the flare size on the dillon powder die to try and fix it.  I am also having issues with OAL being nowhere near consistent which I don't understand.  I called Dillon and was told 10-15 thou was acceptable when using mixed brass casings?  I just loaded my first 100rds and my OAL is all over the place as low as 1.070 all the way to 1.094.  My crimp will range .375-.377.

 

I dont think the Lee die is contacting the bullet nose correctly since I use a truncated nose BBI coated bullet?  I think its not going in squarely causing the shavings and inconsistent seating depth?

 

Would the Dillon seating die be the best choice to correct this or are there better choice?  Right now I am not sure I can get a dillon and Redding is on BO everythere I looked.  My local shop may have a Hornady in stock.  Dillon's site list the 9mm die set still on BO but had a seating die available which I ordered but will see if it comes or shows up as it shows as BO everywhere else.

 

I have the Lee die out and going to smooth out the machine marks on the entrance and I was going to back the die way out to avoid any possibility of crimping.  I had it turned out 3 turns like the instructions stated but think that is still to deep?

 

I am a total newb just getting into this due to not being able to buy ammo.  I am also learning how to reload almost completely from info on this board which has been invaluable, Thanks.

IMO, your flaring of the pistol brass is causing the mouth to have too much bell thus "scraping" the inside of the seating die creating the brass shavings.

 

The info in this post can definitely help with creating/expanding brass for a stable "seat" to place the bullet:

 

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/205711-fix-for-shaving-lead-bullets/

 

I can also highly recommend the Redding Pro Micrometer Seating Die for consistent, trouble free seating that's very easy to adjust when using different bullets!

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018047052

 

HTHs!

 

 

[ML123]

54 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

IMO, your flaring of the pistol brass is causing the mouth to have too much bell thus "scraping" the inside of the seating die creating the brass shavings.

 

The info in this post can definitely help with creating/expanding brass for a stable "seat" to place the bullet:

 

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/205711-fix-for-shaving-lead-bullets/

 

I can also highly recommend the Redding Pro Micrometer Seating Die for consistent, trouble free seating that's very easy to adjust when using different bullets!

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018047052

 

HTHs!

 

 

Yes thank you that DA powder funnel looks like another must have piece, lol.

 

I did back the flare off to .380 which it did seem like that is what fixed the shaving issues but it takes a little longer to put a bullet in and make sure it is straight before I seat it.

Edited September 29, 2020 by ML123

[HOGRIDER]

2 hours ago, ML123 said:

but it takes a little longer to put a bullet in and make sure it is straight before I seat it.

Add one of these to your powder measure, and "making sure it is straight" will not be an issue anymore!

 

https://uniquetek.com/product/T1582

 

[Miranda]

hi Ml123,

 

umm...

a slight dent into the bullet of 9mm is considered too much crimp.

 

with 9mm the bell the funnel makes is to help seat the bullet.

the "crimp" is to remove the bell.  you do not want  the case mouth on the bullet.

so crimp just enough to pass the case gauge...

 

your variations are consistent with shell plate rocking...

 

ok, your case lengths may also be all over the place too.

I tend to discount that from your reports of changes to COL.

If the overall were consistent, then I'd blame crimp problems on the cases.

 

I used a moto-tool to polish and all I did was remove any edges that could scrape off brass.

the die mouths are shiny and you can see tooling marks.

 

another way to describe why I think your shell plate is rocking.

 

you have 5 cases going into 5 dies.

the case and die with the most resistance will press that side of the plate down as far as it will go.

the other 4 get to ride on a teeter-totter and will get jammed up further or resist as best they are able.

 

If I could have the best of both worlds...

the sizing die just touches shell plate AND the bullet seating die just touches the shell plate.

a positive stop for both and no more teeter-totter.

Dillon Dies may do this. I do not have a set...

 

miranda

miranda

 

 

[ML123]

4 hours ago, Miranda said:

hi Ml123,

 

umm...

a slight dent into the bullet of 9mm is considered too much crimp.

 

with 9mm the bell the funnel makes is to help seat the bullet.

the "crimp" is to remove the bell.  you do not want  the case mouth on the bullet.

so crimp just enough to pass the case gauge...

 

your variations are consistent with shell plate rocking...

 

ok, your case lengths may also be all over the place too.

I tend to discount that from your reports of changes to COL.

If the overall were consistent, then I'd blame crimp problems on the cases.

 

I used a moto-tool to polish and all I did was remove any edges that could scrape off brass.

the die mouths are shiny and you can see tooling marks.

 

another way to describe why I think your shell plate is rocking.

 

you have 5 cases going into 5 dies.

the case and die with the most resistance will press that side of the plate down as far as it will go.

the other 4 get to ride on a teeter-totter and will get jammed up further or resist as best they are able.

 

If I could have the best of both worlds...

the sizing die just touches shell plate AND the bullet seating die just touches the shell plate.

a positive stop for both and no more teeter-totter.

Dillon Dies may do this. I do not have a set...

 

miranda

miranda

 

 

Thanks your advice is starting to make sense to me.  I have a Dillon seating die on its way which I want to switch to since it is only a seating die and does not crimp and has the bullet seater for a square nose.  I think I am also going to order the MBF powder funnel and when they get here go through the entire set up again.  

 

I also found a youtuber showing a method for adjusting the shell plate that should be easy to follow he tightens down the main bolt, then the brass tipped screw, and then loosen the main bolt to where the plate will index

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMRHCFbETXE&t=3s

 

I kind of wish I started with new brass for the first round.  Starline offers new brass at a pretty reasonable price and I would at least have more consistency in length and weight of the casing which would make life easier in setting it up for the first time.