How many penalties?

[waktasz]

Shooting CM 13-06 today. (Five targets, shoot 1 on each, reload, shoot 1 on each. Virginia count)

Shooter double taps the first target, but shoots the others with one shot, as he should. After the reload shoots all 5 targets as expected. There are no extra hits on target. How many penalties?

I was RO-ing. As soon as he double tapped the first target I held up a finger for a PE, I thought that made sense, right? Then since his last shot of the stage was his 11th shot, I held up another one for an extra shot. Is this giving him two penalties for the same thing? Shooter ended up getting one PE for the stage, but I still am not sure which is correct.

[Jake Di Vita]

1 extra shot I believe.

[Bkreutz]

1 penalty, you counted the extra shot twice, and since he didn't hit the targets will all the shots, there is no extra hit penalty. The double tap wasn't an extra shot until shot #11, as the RO, you shouldn't have been watching where he was shooting. (watch the gun).

Now if he was shot stacking, that would be another thing. (2, 2, 1, reload, 1, 2, 2)

Edited March 6, 2016 by Bkreutz

[Sarge]

Count shots at the shooter and hits when scoring. He only gets one extra shot penalt here

[CZinSC]

Count shots at the shooter and hits when scoring. He only gets one extra shot penalt here

This ^^^

1 penalty for 1 extra shot. that is it.

[waktasz]

1 penalty, you counted the extra shot twice, and since he didn't hit the targets will all the shots, there is no extra hit penalty. The double tap wasn't an extra shot until shot #11, as the RO, you shouldn't have been watching where he was shooting. (watch the gun).

Now if he was shot stacking, that would be another thing. (2, 2, 1, reload, 1, 2, 2)

I was watching the gun. It's pretty obvious that he doubled the first target. Good to know we got it right for this shooter though.

[High Lord Gomer]

If someone asks to see the rules used to make the above decisions:

10.2.2.1 Procedural penalties for failure to comply with stage procedures do not apply to the number of shots fired. Penalties for firing insufficient or additional shots are addressed in other rules and must not be penalized under the provisions of 10.2.2.

...and...

9.4.5 In a Virginia Count Course of Fire or a Fixed Time Course of Fire:
9.4.5.1 Extra shots (i.e. shots fired in excess of the number specified in a component string or stage), will each incur one procedural penalty. Additionally, during scoring, no more than the specified number and highest scoring hits will be awarded.
9.4.5.2 Extra hits (i.e. hits on the scoring area of scoring paper targets in excess of the total number specified in the stage), will each incur one procedural penalty. Note that hits on hard cover and/or no-shoots are not treated as Extra Hits.

[AEuropa]

So, according to 9.4.5.2, if the shooter in question was making up a D zone hit on the first target and hit the A zone with his second shot, he would be assessed 2 procedurals? 1 for the extra shot (counted at the end of the cof) and 1 for the extra hit on the 1st target (however he would get A zone points?

Am I reading that correctly?

Alex

[High Lord Gomer]

So, according to 9.4.5.2, if the shooter in question was making up a D zone hit on the first target and hit the A zone with his second shot, he would be assessed 2 procedurals? 1 for the extra shot (counted at the end of the cof) and 1 for the extra hit on the 1st target (however he would get A zone points?

Am I reading that correctly?

Alex

Exactly!

[Sarge]

So, according to 9.4.5.2, if the shooter in question was making up a D zone hit on the first target and hit the A zone with his second shot, he would be assessed 2 procedurals? 1 for the extra shot (counted at the end of the cof) and 1 for the extra hit on the 1st target (however he would get A zone points?

Am I reading that correctly?

Alex

Exactly!

Indeed! You gave to be pretty damn fast to makeup a shot on Virginia count stage!