dvc4you Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 So I finally got my hands into some VW 3N38 to try in my Akai, using 124 gr MG JHP. I loaded 2 test batches: 10.0 gr and 10.3 gr.....and I got the same results !!???? Loads were weighted thoroughly in a Dillom electronic scale averaging 5 throws before loading the batch. Here are the results: 10.0gr 1394 1374 1381 1375 1371 1378 1380 1380 AVG 1379 PF = 171 STD = 6 10.3gr 1397 1374 1363 1378 1378 1377 1374 AVG 1376 PF = 171 Used Prochrono Digital with infrared led screens in an indoor range. Here is the top of the gun: Should I try 10.5gr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open1215 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 What was your oal? I flatten primers at 10.5 under a 115g. If the guns flat and a 171 at 10.g I would leave it alone. With the whole you might not be getting a complete Bernat 10.3 there for the extra powder isn't doing anything to add velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 COAL 1.235. Primers look fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open1215 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 You might just not be getting enough burn. Are you using small rifle primers? Perhaps the switch could get you a more complete burn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Going from 10 to 10.3 should not give the same results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 I am using Winchester small rifle primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open1215 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Ya. Only thing I can think of is holes... I have a svi w 4 holes I haven't had a chance to chrono yet. Hybrid barrels loose gas quick. W less barrel lenth to act on it 10g may be all the time you have to burn? Is your gun flat at 10g? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I run 10.8 grains in Bedell shorty with 2 huge popple holes. Making 177-179 pf. cci pistol primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Ya. Only thing I can think of is holes... I have a svi w 4 holes I haven't had a chance to chrono yet. Hybrid barrels loose gas quick. W less barrel lenth to act on it 10g may be all the time you have to burn? Is your gun flat at 10g? Frankly this gun has always shot very flat, I only shot 40 rounds and I liked the feel, I am just trying to get to the ideal load and stick with it. I am not an experienced open shooter. I just know I like how 3N38 (10.0 gr.) feels compared to 9.3 gr of HS6. I think it is flatter. It also "feels" better than 11.3gr of N105 which I shot in the same session and produced a PF of 172. Just experimenting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Given that the primers were fine, I will try 10.5gr and see what happens...I know this gun needs a lot of gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open1215 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Well if that's what feels good shoot it. I love 10.5 under a 115g but I get fireballs. I don't get them with N105 so I've been using that lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open1215 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Every gun has that sweet spot, once you find it you will know :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ano Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Ive seen similar in 9 major, you reach a point where PF doesnt really go up as much as your powder throw does. but it does flatten primers more and goes boom more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open1215 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) So have I, I think you might have plateaued This happened to me with the same powder 8.2 grams and 8.4 grains yielded the exact same, in fact I actually dropped 2 points in PF Same powder 3n38 Edited September 16, 2015 by Open1215 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Will try 10.5 gr to confirm the trend, if PF remains at 171 will use 10.0 gr. in a couple of matches to see how it feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Will try 10.5 gr to confirm the trend, if PF remains at 171 will use 10.0 gr. in a couple of matches to see how it feels. You might even try a little less than 10 grains and see if you get the same velocity. With so many holes and how slow 3n38 is, you're only going to get so much burn... I'd wager 9.8 will get you something very close to the same PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Will try 10.5 gr to confirm the trend, if PF remains at 171 will use 10.0 gr. in a couple of matches to see how it feels.You might even try a little less than 10 grains and see if you get the same velocity. With so many holes and how slow 3n38 is, you're only going to get so much burn... I'd wager 9.8 will get you something very close to the same PF.Thanks that is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I have a STI GM and a Ganns STI in 38SC. The STI GM has three popples. The Ganns STI has 4 popples but they are smaller in diameter than the one ones on the STI GM. I am loading to 1.235, small rifle primers, 124 gr Precision Delta FMJ projectiles and 10 gr of 3n38. The STI GM averages 1422 fps with a PF of 176.3 SD is 7. The Ganns STI averages 1428 fps for a PF of 177.1 SD is 9 I could easily make major at 9.5 grains of 3N38 but the dot behaves so much better at 10 grains. At 9.5 gr of powder, the STI GM averages 1383 PF 171.5 SD 8 and the Ganns STI averages 1396 PF 173.1 SD 8. The weather conditions that day (8/11/15) were 82 F, RH of 71%, elevation 656 feet. If you are going to be at the Statesville CSOS match this Sunday, you are welcomed to use my chronograph as a friend wants to chrono some rounds after the match. I use a Pro-Chrono as well. Edited September 16, 2015 by JMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I would try 10.1 and 10.2, I'd bet one of them gives you higher velocity than 10.3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 I have a STI GM and a Ganns STI in 38SC. The STI GM has three popples. The Ganns STI has 4 popples but they are smaller in diameter than the one ones on the STI GM. I am loading to 1.235, small rifle primers, 124 gr Precision Delta FMJ projectiles and 10 gr of 3n38. The STI GM averages 1422 fps with a PF of 176.3 SD is 7. The Ganns STI averages 1428 fps for a PF of 177.1 SD is 9 I could easily make major at 9.5 grains of 3N38 but the dot behaves so much better at 10 grains. At 9.5 gr of powder, the STI GM averages 1383 PF 171.5 SD 8 and the Ganns STI averages 1396 PF 173.1 SD 8. The weather conditions that day (8/11/15) were 82 F, RH of 71%, elevation 656 feet. If you are going to be at the Statesville CSOS match this Sunday, you are welcomed to use my chronograph as a friend wants to chrono some rounds after the match. I use a Pro-Chrono as well. Thanks for the offer. I will be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Thanks for the offer. I will be there. Ok, I see you are on Squad 4 with Gil. I'll be on Squad 5 with Kosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 It may also be slightly conpressed. Perhaps consider increasing oal slightly to 1.240-1.245. I know it sound counter intuitive but it seem odd to have hit the wall with 3n38 at 10.3gn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Yes, it seems very odd, I was using 11.6gr of N105 and is highly compressed but 11.6 gr gave me more fps than 11.3gr. Why would this not be the case with 3N38? Will reconfirm this Sunday with another chronograph. I have loaded 10.5 and 9.8gr, will report back as how they behave. Edited September 17, 2015 by dvc4you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ano Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 It is odd! I cannot explain it brass with MORE space inside, gave higher PF than brass with LESS space, so its all very weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 So we chronographed yesterday and here are the results: 38Supercomp VW 3N38 MG 124gr JHP WSRP OAL 1.235 Charge AVG STD PF 9.8gr 1325 11 164.3 10.5gr 1396 12 173.1 So it seems that the 10.3gr charge that I chrono last week was a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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