Production grip tape and maintaining factory profile

[JAFO]

I considered this from the point of view of Sig instead of CZ, as that's what I have and there are a lot of different grips available for them as well. I can't use magwell grips because they create a magwell. I can't use wrap around finger groove grips because adding finger grooves changes the factory (i.e., smooth frontstrap) profile. I would consider that adding tape to create a palm swell or custom molding JB Weld to fit your hand would changing the factory profile of even thickness on both sides.

However, it is legal for me to swap out factory plastic grips for non-finger groove rubber grip panels or wood grip panels. Both of those increase the thickness of the grip from factory plastic without changing the factory profile of the grip. If you were to apply tape to a grip evenly to simply make the grip thicker all around without creating grooves, swells, or a deeper pocket for the web of your hand, I'd think that should be allowed.

[bret]

I considered this from the point of view of Sig instead of CZ, as that's what I have and there are a lot of different grips available for them as well. I can't use magwell grips because they create a magwell. I can't use wrap around finger groove grips because adding finger grooves changes the factory (i.e., smooth frontstrap) profile. I would consider that adding tape to create a palm swell or custom molding JB Weld to fit your hand would changing the factory profile of even thickness on both sides.

However, it is legal for me to swap out factory plastic grips for non-finger groove rubber grip panels or wood grip panels. Both of those increase the thickness of the grip from factory plastic without changing the factory profile of the grip. If you were to apply tape to a grip evenly to simply make the grip thicker all around without creating grooves, swells, or a deeper pocket for the web of your hand, I'd think that should be allowed.

One of the R.O.'s said a guus gun didn't comply since the grips were skeletonized, he later came back and said they were O.K., funny thing is he shoots factory but had finger grooved grips.

What is the rule that says this is not legal for production?

Before I mention it to him, I wsnt to know what the exact rule is.

Thanks

[Nik Habicht]

I considered this from the point of view of Sig instead of CZ, as that's what I have and there are a lot of different grips available for them as well. I can't use magwell grips because they create a magwell. I can't use wrap around finger groove grips because adding finger grooves changes the factory (i.e., smooth frontstrap) profile. I would consider that adding tape to create a palm swell or custom molding JB Weld to fit your hand would changing the factory profile of even thickness on both sides.

However, it is legal for me to swap out factory plastic grips for non-finger groove rubber grip panels or wood grip panels. Both of those increase the thickness of the grip from factory plastic without changing the factory profile of the grip. If you were to apply tape to a grip evenly to simply make the grip thicker all around without creating grooves, swells, or a deeper pocket for the web of your hand, I'd think that should be allowed.

One of the R.O.'s said a guus gun didn't comply since the grips were skeletonized, he later came back and said they were O.K., funny thing is he shoots factory but had finger grooved grips.

What is the rule that says this is not legal for production?

Before I mention it to him, I wsnt to know what the exact rule is.

Thanks

It doesn't work like that in production -- you turned the question around. The competitor needs to be able to point to language in the rulebook that specifically allows a particular modification of his production blaster, if his gun is questioned.

[bret]

I considered this from the point of view of Sig instead of CZ, as that's what I have and there are a lot of different grips available for them as well. I can't use magwell grips because they create a magwell. I can't use wrap around finger groove grips because adding finger grooves changes the factory (i.e., smooth frontstrap) profile. I would consider that adding tape to create a palm swell or custom molding JB Weld to fit your hand would changing the factory profile of even thickness on both sides.

However, it is legal for me to swap out factory plastic grips for non-finger groove rubber grip panels or wood grip panels. Both of those increase the thickness of the grip from factory plastic without changing the factory profile of the grip. If you were to apply tape to a grip evenly to simply make the grip thicker all around without creating grooves, swells, or a deeper pocket for the web of your hand, I'd think that should be allowed.

One of the R.O.'s said a guus gun didn't comply since the grips were skeletonized, he later came back and said they were O.K., funny thing is he shoots factory but had finger grooved grips.

What is the rule that says this is not legal for production?

Before I mention it to him, I wsnt to know what the exact rule is.

Thanks

It doesn't work like that in production -- you turned the question around. The competitor needs to be able to point to language in the rulebook that specifically allows a particular modification of his production blaster, if his gun is questioned.

Can the competitor change the grips on a production gun that has finger grooves on it?

I don't see where it says they can't , but I also don't see where it says they can.

[fishsticks]

21.4 seems pretty clear with regard to changing grip panels.

• For semi-automatic Production guns, grip tape, gripsleeves, checkering, stippling or other texture may only be applied in the areas shown in appendix E4. Glue and grit is considered the same as stippling.• Replacement grip panels are allowed provided theydo not extend below the butt of the gun to form a make-shift magwell.

[bret]

21.4 seems pretty clear with regard to changing grip panels.

For semi-automatic Production guns, grip tape, gripsleeves, checkering, stippling or other texture may only be applied in the areas shown in appendix E4. Glue and grit is considered the same as stippling. Replacement grip panels are allowed provided theydo not extend below the butt of the gun to form a make-shift magwell.

There is enough wiggle room for him to say it is allowed, he is an R.O. and helps set up the matches, so he has more pull.

What he has is grips that have finger grooves, they alter the factory grip, they change the profile of the front strap.

The finger grooves extend beyond appendix E4 from what I can see.

[JAFO]

It's my understanding that, unless finger grove grips are offered on another model of gun already on the approved Production list, you cannot switch to them because they alter the factory profile (i.e., the frontstrap). It's not covered in 21.4, but it is in 22.2:

22.2

Grips – any addition or removal of material which changes the factory pro-

file or adds function such as beavertail or thumb rest.

Edited July 29, 2015 by JAFO

[Fantom919]

Sorry to dig up this older thread but I was wondering if it's okay to put jb weld and SiCa on the front strap and back strap of my cz frame? This would be for Production. The cts lsp uses a frame that has no checkering on the front and back strap and the smooth service causes any grip tape I put on to move around when it's hot outside. 

 

My concern would be that someome interprets this as changing the profile of the frame since a layer of jb weld might be thicker than a piece of grip tape. 

 

The rules say glue and SiCa would be the same as grip tape but obviously not super defined. (This change would assume I'd still make weight of course.)

 

Thanks!

[Schutzenmeister]

App D4, 21.4 ... Unless I'm misreading it, this is specifically allowed.

[Kraj]

On 7/19/2015 at 1:34 PM, Nimitz said:

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by Kraj

[Fantom919]

Thanks that's what I figured. Has anyone over questioned something like jb weld on a frame for this purpose before?  I've added some to my grip panels already and have not hear any issues from anyone concerning it.

[Schutzenmeister]

IF they question it, pull out the rule book, point to the above quoted rule, and ask:  What's the problem?  If the RO maintains it's a problem, work it up the chain ... CRO to RM.  This one is black and white.

 

Edit to add ... Remember, it says "glue and grit."  It does not authorize using the glue (JB Weld) to effectively build up and reshape the grip!

Edited February 23, 2017 by Schutzenmeister
Clarification

[Fantom919]

2 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:

IF they question it, pull out the rule book, point to the above quoted rule, and ask:  What's the problem?  If the RO maintains it's a problem, work it up the chain ... CRO to RM.  This one is black and white.

 

Edit to add ... Remember, it says "glue and grit."  It does not authorize using the glue (JB Weld) to effectively build up and reshape the grip!

Yes definitely. I guess that's what my concern was. What can I do if an RO says I'm reshaping the grip since I'm sure jb weld and grit will be thicker than grip tape. 

 

I guess the answer would be to just nit risk it..

[Schutzenmeister]

I'm somewhat sure the difference is visually obvious.  Use enough glue to hold the grit and you should be good to go.  Use enough to be able to create finger grooves and you've probably gone too far!