sloipscshooter Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I have been IPSC shooter for 11 years. I'm a competitor in Pistol Production division with Glock 17, Shotgun Standard Manual Division with Winchester Defender 1300 (12 ga) and I would like to compete in 3-gun matches as well! Can someone recomend me rifle for 3-gun Production Division? I'm interested in Remington 7615 in .223 Rem.? Is this a good decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 How about an ar15 or a m1a (heavy metal)? A pump rifle would be pretty slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 For IPSC rifle, nothing but a semi-auto with 20+ magazine capacity is going to be competitive against a full house AR-15 type rifle. This basically limits the field to .223 and larger caliber military type rifles with detachable box magazines. There are a lot of good options besides the AR-15/M-16 variants, but generally speaking a caliber larger than .223 is at a disadvantage against the .223’s. There is a lot of interest in the USA for a new division in 3 gun called HM (He-Man, or Heavy Metal) that requires a full power .30 caliber rifle, but generally the .223’s run the game in IPSC rifle and 3 gun tournaments. HM has yet to be recognized by World IPSC, or USPSA but is looking to be a future division from the interest it is generating in IMG type (Non-IPSC) 3 gun matches over here. -- Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloipscshooter Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 According to IPSC Tournament rules, in Production Division are Handgun: Production or revolver (ex. Glock 17); Shotgun: Standard Manual (ex. Winchester Defender 1300); Rifle: Standard Manual. That means, only Rifle in Production Division is Standard Manual. Which Rifle would be the best for that category; IPSC Tournament - Production Division? Which Rifle is the best for IPSC Rifle Manual Action Standard Division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Sorry about the brain fade. I forgot that IPSC specifies a Standard manual rifle for Production Division. In the US we don’t really run Production Division in most multi-gun matches and I didn’t pay much attention to that detail. You still want a detachable box magazine if at all possible, or maybe the ability to load with stripper clips. Remington 700’s can be had with detachable floorplate mags and will work with stripper clips, so there is a good start. .223 and .308 are short action bolt throws so that will help with cycling speed. Any sort of a tube magazine will be a loading problem in most matches. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloipscshooter Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 No problemo, George. Remington 7615 accept AR15/M16 magazines. I think, for fast shooting in IPSC Rifle Manual Action Standard Division, Pump Action system is the best. I don't know, which system is faster? Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 The pump is faster for MAS or MOR but the 7600 series are inherently inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Matt.... I am sure you have experience with the 7600 to make a statement like that...what is it that makes them inherently inaccurate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Tightloop, I had one when I was younger and less informed. I would guess that it is the sloppy lockup of bolt to barrel and the barrel being attached to the rail that the pump rides on. My .02 TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako92S Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 I was considering to get Remington 7615P but decided to get DPMS pump action AR-15 instead. I think that is better choice for manual action division because you can get lot of standard AR-15 equipments for it. I'm going to get also 7.62x39 barrel for it for major classification loadings. ( I have such Colt barrel already) BTW Does anyone here on board have any experiens with this rifle? I tried that same question on ar15.com but no success. Here is the picture of that DPMS pump rifle: Ps. I live in Finland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 I don't think you'll make major with 7.62x39, you'll need to get a 123gn bullet travelling at 2601f/s, or a 150 at 2134, I can't find loads like that listed. Am I missing a viable alternative? do tell, P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako92S Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Yes we can and we can also use heavier bullets to get the PF 320. With 8g (123gr)bullets 320 (pf) / 123 (gr) x 1000 = 2602 fps, which is 794 m/s. With normal Lapua ammo you can get 720m/s out of 18" barrel (not major, just example) You can use also 9.7g, 11.8g and 12.3g bullets With Vihtavuori N133 powder that is easy to get major PF. Mainly we use 9.7g bullets to get the major PF. You can load that information to Quick Load program and calculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Thanks for that information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako92S Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 You can found some data here: http://www.accuratereloading.com/76239.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I believe the DPMS gun has a recoil spring still. You will need to take that out and put some type of detent for the bolt to be legal in MOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako92S Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I didn't find any information about that spring (if there is any) being against rules in IPSC rifle practical rules book. Can you verify that somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I contacted USPSA about this a while back and that is what I was told. I see you live in Finland so I don't know what IPSC says about this. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Yeah, I got told that a spring assist on the bolt was illegal too. Haven't found it in the rule book though. Course haven't looked hard yet. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 The 76X series of rifles has to much flexion on the barrel from the forend not to mention the lockup as previously stated is horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 The 76X series of rifles has to much flexion on the barrel from the forend not to mention the lockup as previously stated is horrible. Matt, Some of the old model 760(the early ones) had a barrel/pump link-up. The 7600's have a free floating barrel. The pump rides on a completely seperate rod, it doesn't touch the barrel at all. You can run a thin booklet down the barrel all the way to the action. I have always been suprised at the accuracy from the 7600 pump gun. For an out of the box hunting gun, they are very accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako92S Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 According Tim Andersen Chairman of IPSC rifle rules DPMS pump action is approved for manual action division. See link: http://ipsc.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=788 You have to register on the board to see the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako92S Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I got more info about DPMS pump action rifle. It's spring assisted but the spring can be removed and the rifle will still go as manual action. I ordered the rifle from my exporter. 8-10 weeks delivery time from manufacturer and couple weeks from USA to Finland. We are developing major loading for that rifle. (7.62x39 russian) Starting with following components: 9.4 g and 9.7g Priv Partizan bullet Sellier & Bellot case (largest room for powder) Vihtavuori N130 powder 1.8g I will let you know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako92S Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Some test results so far Powder: Vihtavuori N133 Loading: 1,802g Bullet: 9,7g PPU Case: Sellier Bellot Barrel: 410mm (16") Temperature: -7 Celsius Velocity: 636 m/s IPSC PF: 313 Powder: Vihtavuori N133 Loading: 1,802g Bullet: 9,4g PPU Case: Sellier Bellot Barrel: 410mm (16") Temperature: -7 Celsius Velocity: 645 m/s IPSC PF: 307 Powder: Vihtavuori N133 Loading: 1,802g Bullet: 9,7g 303 British Case: Sellier Bellot Barrel: 410mm (16") Temperature: -7 Celsius Velocity: 643 m/s IPSC PF: 316 Velocity measured 3 meters from barrel Powder load is going to be raised to 1.85g in next test session. There were no pressure marks on used case. We are going to make sure that it will meet major classification with both my barrels 16" and 18" 20 degrees warmer weather it will do that definately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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