hockeydadnu27 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 This is my first time going to SMM3-Gun this year and I wanted to know how they had everyone grounding or cooling off your shotgun during multi gun stages??? I am trying to get some practice and need to know there procedures. Thanks for info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 As the rules stated - empty, no rounds in chamber or tube. Basically, if you put a weapon down, it better be empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhearn Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Hockey Dad Last year was my first year out. I'm heading back for more. I normally shoot USPSA. This match seems a bit looser. On the grounding thing, most folks seemed to be dropping the mag, pointing down range and shooting the last one into the berm. Pistol. Shotgun. Rifle. Pretty much all the same. Just check the back drop, eject the mag and squeeze. I'm going to try and rack the last one out. The other still seems a bit reckless when your in a hurry to drop the thing. Whatever. They usually had a place for you to put the weapons. This was more for convenience and to keep the firearm from getting banged up than a hard and fast had to put it here type of thing. Good Luck MHearn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I have found that it is darn hard to hit a button and drop the mag from my shotgun. I need a screw driver and also have to unthread the tube. This seems like a lot of work to do on the clock, so I just put in one extra shell for however many is needed and then shoot the last round into the berm and ground. I have seen pleanty of people DQ by racking out thier chamber round and not checking the tube, that they haven't droped, off thier shotgun KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Listen to kurt, he the man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhearn Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Hockey Dad Benny and Kurt should know what they're talking about, they also tend to think they know the only way. But, I have a hard time advising anyone to find out if a firearm is loaded by pulling the trigger. Is it loaded? Bang. Yea, I guess it was. No thanks. I'll rack it and look. My slide locks back when its empty. If it locks back, I'm out of here. I know some of the top guys shoot it dry, but I know some of the top guys rack and check as well. MHearn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Ahem MHearn: I rack out pistol, and I rack out rifle. I don't do this with shotgun, because it is really hard to SEE at speed that the tube is empty ( with rifle and pistol it is the large gapping hole where the magazine used to be that gives it away ). At least 1/2 of all DQs I have seen in these "speed unloading" type matches were with shotguns! with a round still in the tube. Secondly I am "NOT finding out if the gun is loaded" by pulling the trigger. I KNOW its loaded! I am VERY DELIBERATELY shooting the last round in a safe direction so the "racking part" is done for me, allowing MORE time to inspect the TUBE, and chamber area. Kind of like a reverse "press check" where the shotgun does the press for you. Third, I don't know a single "top guy" that does shotgun any different than the way Benny and I do it, but what do I know, from your post I don't even know if my guns are loaded or not The up side is that all of my trigger presses are true "suprize breaks" KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhearn Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Kurt Does your bolt lock back when the shotgun is empty? MHearn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 MHearn: The simple answer is, yes it locks back when empty. If you were in lawyer mode I would quit there Since you don't seem to be in that mode ( because you didn't say just answer yes or no) I will expound a bit. Yes it locks back IF SHOT, it is a Benelli. The meer act of racking the bolt woun't lock the gun open unless it is empty ( when ever that might be) and the trigger has been pulled or you press the little tab down by the trigger guard and then rack. With all that said....... It will also act like it is locked back If a shell jambs half way out on the carrier, just like 1100s, 1187s, SX2s, and a host of others will; not often at all but it can. ( side note I have seen 6 DQs in this manner). It will also sometime act locked open when slightly short cycled by hand, due to a bind between the carrier and the carrier dog ( this is also par for the course for the afore mentioned list ). This one has led to the most DQs at 14. "Darn!! I racked that sucker and the shell fell out and it stayed open, I could have sweared it was empty, cus it locked back. If it wern't empty it wouldna have locked!!" ( best said with a Billy Bob accent). The other time is if it's broke, but like I said....its a Benelli I guess I look at it like I shouldn't do anything on the clock by hand if something will automatically do it for me, but don't let me stop you. Some of the most fun Ive had is watching someone hand rack out 3-4 shells from an 1100 at somewhere around a second a shell and still miss the last one because of a "short cycle" by hand and still DQ, where as if he had just kept the shotgun pointed at the last target and LAYED on the trigger it would have emptied itself for him in .25-.35 splits and used the extra 3 seconds to make sure it really was empty. Hey like Moose man sayes " everybody likes a nice rack!!" This entire exercize will be a mote point as soon as we quit unloading on the clock WHICH IS JUST PLAIN DANGEROUS!!!!!!!!!!! KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhearn Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Kurt On your other point about how top shooters don't rack the last one. Have you watched Michael Voigt's piece on Shooting USA on the Outdoor Life Network. Its one of those "Tips from the Pros" segments. This is the piece where he is shooting the three gun stage out in the woods. He starts with the shotgun before transitioning to the handgun and then to the rifle. He makes a point of mentioning how he racks the last round out of the shotgun before grounding it. He does not shot it out. He also racks the last round out of the pistol. Now, this might be Hollywood since I've seen him dump that last round down range as well; but, if he is teaching it that way! Maybe, its worth considering, since he probably does counts as a top shooter. MHearn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 He makes a point of mentioning how he racks the last round out of the shotgun before grounding it. Yeah, I noticed that myself. Here is the web page version of the TV segment: http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/pro_tips.html -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardschennberg Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 If you rack or pump, do it twice! That will cover you for the one time you forget to look and could have inadvertanly chambered a shell. Richard Schennberg.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I've only been shooting 3-gun around Mike since 95, so I don't really know what he does all the time. The only thing I can say with certainty, is that teaching comes with a BIG legal liability, where as racing doesn't. Now I'll be the first to admit that I did miss the very first year they shot Mesa, but since then I have either been squaded with "those guys" or in the squad following them and can attest that for the last 9 years, I haven't seen a single " those guys" do it any other way than shoot it dry and look, and sometimes not to gently drop it off to get the next gun going. If you like racking out the last round, it's good with me, just do me a favor and make sure you didn't inadvertantly load an extra or two, or have a minor glitch while racking. I have seen way to many shooter DQ doing it. I like Richards advice rack it twice, if it aint locked and if its locked look again. I never said it wasn't a good way I just said it is the slow way with a shotgun. Reaching up to rack the gun just seems to take more time than just pressing the trigger one more time, but maybe I'm just slow. KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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