XL650 Single Stage Setup

[match308]

Has anyone tried one? I wanted to see what king of runout this thing puts out for precision loads.

Edited March 26, 2015 by match308

[RDA]

Hmm, never seen this but they make these things called singled stage presses that would make far more sense I would think.

[match308]

I have limited space. Not limited product knowledge re: single stage presses.

[Bkreutz]

I think if you're looking for extreme accuracy, the slide in die plate has to have built in "slop" just to get it to be able to be changed. I don't think it would be more accurate than using the standard multi hole die plate. If I was going for maximum accuracy, it would have to be a high end, dedicated single stage.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Bkreutz

[Pat Miles]

I think if you're looking for extreme accuracy, the slide in die plate has to have built in "slop" just to get it to be able to be changed.

Think about that "slop" for a second. The ram with the cartridge in the shell plate travels upward into the dies. This upward movement pushes the toolhead with the dies upward in the horizontal locating slot in the main body of the 650. The toolhead with the dies stop at the same vertical height every time when the toolhead meets the top of the slot.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Pat Miles

[Steve RA]

I think it would be a whole lot cheaper to use something like a Lee Classic Cast O press. I use one for depriming and loading .223 and it is extremely rigid. Also has a neat way to handle spent primers.

[Bkreutz]

I think if you're looking for extreme accuracy, the slide in die plate has to have built in "slop" just to get it to be able to be changed.

Think about that "slop" for a second. The ram with the cartridge in the shell plate travels upward into the dies. This upward movement pushes the toolhead with the dies upward in the horizontal locating slot in the main body of the 650. The toolhead with the dies stop at the same vertical height every time when the toolhead meets the top of the slot.

You're assuming the die plate hits the same place every time. Factor in the locating pin hole and pin clearance and now you have a number of variables. Granted, the variables aren't enough to matter for most people (including myself) but the OP was asking about extreme accuracy. I've seen and heard of some the the lengths the extreme shooters go to to eliminate variables.

[Pat Miles]

I think if you're looking for extreme accuracy, the slide in die plate has to have built in "slop" just to get it to be able to be changed.

Think about that "slop" for a second. The ram with the cartridge in the shell plate travels upward into the dies. This upward movement pushes the toolhead with the dies upward in the horizontal locating slot in the main body of the 650. The toolhead with the dies stop at the same vertical height every time when the toolhead meets the top of the slot.

You're assuming the die plate hits the same place every time. Factor in the locating pin hole and pin clearance and now you have a number of variables. Granted, the variables aren't enough to matter for most people (including myself) but the OP was asking about extreme accuracy. I've seen and heard of some the the lengths the extreme shooters go to to eliminate variables.

Where else can it go but up to the top of the slot?

[Bkreutz]

I think if you're looking for extreme accuracy, the slide in die plate has to have built in "slop" just to get it to be able to be changed.

Think about that "slop" for a second. The ram with the cartridge in the shell plate travels upward into the dies. This upward movement pushes the toolhead with the dies upward in the horizontal locating slot in the main body of the 650. The toolhead with the dies stop at the same vertical height every time when the toolhead meets the top of the slot.

You're assuming the die plate hits the same place every time. Factor in the locating pin hole and pin clearance and now you have a number of variables. Granted, the variables aren't enough to matter for most people (including myself) but the OP was asking about extreme accuracy. I've seen and heard of some the the lengths the extreme shooters go to to eliminate variables.

Where else can it go but up to the top of the slot?

Well, since there is a tolerance front to back on the pins, and side to side on the pins (actually it's 360 degrees around the hole) there are a number of different places where the plate could hit the frame. Granted we are talking about very small measurements but there has to be tolerance or you couldn't get the plate to slide into the frame, or the pins to go through the holes in the frame and plate. Like I said before, it wouldn't matter to most everyone (including me) but If you're talking to someone who want absolute repeatability, it has to be a solid assembly. The only way I see a slide in plate in a Dillon accomplishing this is to tap the holes in the plate and screw the two together into a solid mass. All you have to do to prove this is to attach a dial indicator that will show .00001" increments to the press, put the stylus on the plate, zero the DI and then operate the press. You then would see how much the variation is on every stroke. (and it's not the same every time) which means it's contacting a different place on the frame. Every slide together unbolted assembly will do this. If you don't believe me, ask your local machinist. He will agree but probably will say that in the real world, it doesn't matter. It's just that some extreme shooters live in a different dimension than the rest of us.

[match308]

Exactly. The runout was extreme, round to round, even without rotating the shell carrier, on my 650. Ogive measurements differed +/- .002. My co-ax won't fit on my current bench so I'm looking to convert with this addon to replace a single stage. Looking for bench rest performance out of a 650 and just wanted to see if anyone has done it.

[BMartens]

Don't forget, the cartridge head is always free to move about in the shell holder no matter what you do to secure the die, and all "C" type presses will flex. Not much, but they flex. All machines have some play in them, you just have to learn how to deal with that play in a consistent manner.

[jmorris]

I would build another bench with QD mounts for different presses before I would buy something like that.

[match308]

Update. Installed it and with the helicoil mod to the die holder, it's every bit as tight as my Co-ax single stage. Runout is <.001 and I couldn't be more impressed.

Edited April 20, 2015 by match308

[Bkreutz]

Update. Installed it and with the helicoil mod to the die holder, it's every bit as tight as my Co-ax single stage. Runout is <.01 and I couldn't be more impressed.

I hope you meant .001" (or .01mm) .01" is tape measure accuracy.

[match308]

Yes .001 lol. Fixed it.

Edited April 20, 2015 by match308