KAL Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Why do I always shoot to the left (must be a bad techinque) Just got my Caspian back had a new fiber optic front sight put on. And If I shoot slow and deliberate I can almost make all 5 rounds touch making one big ragged hole like 1 1/2 inches at 50 or 60 feet pretty consistantly. I am using a 1 inch black square to aim at. Ok so the gun is doing its part I guess, Although I think I have way too heavy of a spring in it. Now heres where I muck it up. I move to offical Uspsa hot shots target, Same distance and try to shoot faster ( mind you I am new so not like really fast) and No matter what all my rounds spread out to like 5 inches and go low 5 inches and left into the C zone and even some D's. This must be me correct? If the guns hits almost dead on slow or supported right? I also shoot a stock P-14 and shoot that High and to the left. It always is the left with me. Any Ideas??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 See what you need to see to make each and every shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Sounds like a fire control issue. I took a class from a "big dawg" and as he walked by me another shooter asked why his shots were going low and to the left. The "big dawg" replied, "Right off hand, I would say you are jerking the $hit out of the trigger". I really did try not to laugh. Can you imagine spending a couple of hundred bucks a day for that kind of advice, lol. (Edited by Ron Ankeny at 10:03 pm on Jan. 1, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 The common cause for this phenomenon is called "crushing the gun." Some people call it "milking the gun," "monkey fisting," "gorrilla gripping" or whatnot. That means that when your index finger curls to pull the trigger, all your other fingers curl as well. Basically, you're making a fist every time you pull the trigger. This of course pulls all your shots to the left (for a right-handed shooter), usually low left. There could also be some anticipation of recoil issues with the extreme lowness of your shots. Many people, consciously or unconsciously, are afraid that when the gun flips its muzzle it's going to come back and hit them in the face. IT WON'T but the fear is still there. So, at the instant the gun fires, they pull down on the gun, trying to compensate for the muzzle flip. The cure for both these problems is lots and lots of dry fire. It's easy not to pull down on the gun while dry firing because it's not moving in your hands. It's easy to isolate the trigger finger from the rest of your hand when you can concentrate on the sights during and after the hammer drops, and see any unwanted movement. And all the time you're doing this, you're acid etching a good trigger pull into your body's muscle memory, into your minds' subconscious. Once you've gotten a few thousand good trigger pulls under your belt, you go out to the range with live ammo, guess what? You still have good trigger pulls, you don't muscle the gun around, because doing it the right way has become your unconscious habit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAL Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 I have been severly lacking in the dry fire department lately. I will work on this, Thanks for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 KAL: another thing to try is this: just before you pull the trigger, "lock" the muscles of the three lower fingers of the right hand (tight grip) so that when you pull the trigger, they are already contracted and won't cause the gun to move with an unintended "clenching" action. I have to do this when I speed shoot or else I will get rushed and "clench" the gun when I pull and drop a shot low and left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hmmmmm. What sort of splits are you getting with this technique? One problem - among many - with tensing the shooting hand is that it severely slows trigger manipulation. You want the hand relaxed so you can have smooth, controlled, fast trigger pulls. I leave the shooting hand relaxed, holding the gun with about as much force as you'd hold a hammer while driving a nail. The support hand forms a C-clamp and applies side-to-side pressure which - along with a straight-to-the-rear trigger pull - stops the gun from being pulled to the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 KAL: Duane's answer is the classical description of a classical problem. By fire control, I mean isolating the action of the trigger finger. Dry fire will take you a long way down the road toward improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 That's me! "A classicial answer to a classical problem." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 This may sound odd, but I got this idea when watching a buddy of mine bench rest shoot. They just touch the trigger and do not hold the gun, the gun sets in the rest. So, try this as an exageration to make your mind realize you don't need to "hold" the gun with your trigger finger hand. First, get a proper grip (if you don't know this for sure go to MattBurkett.com); then take all your fingers on your trigger finger hand and stick them out to the side so that you are only holding the gun with your off hand, (The thumb should be in it's normal position) and shoot a few groups focusing on pulling the trigger strait back (I find the tip of the finger best does this for me.) It may sound weird but it might just help you get the whole grip thing in perspective. Also for dry fire, just practice grip and pointing at targets, see how steady you can hold on targets. Experiement with arm positions and angles until you find the one that fits your body type. You should be able to hold that thing rock steady for a long time once you find "your" natural shooting position. The sight movement should be very minimal when you get it down. DVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 "One problem - among many - with tensing the shooting hand is that it severely slows trigger manipulation. " I wasn't recommending tensing up the whole hand, just applying a steady, firm pressure to the three lower RH fingers at set up, while isolataing the trigger finger to be independent. Once you can do that, the problem goes away. Unfortunately, all humans have a hard-wired path in the brain that says "if one finger contracts, all should". It probably helped early monkeys grab vines better or something similar. It's a hard reflex to de-condition out of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Quote: from Ron Ankeny on 9:36 am on Jan. 3, 2003 : Duane's answer is the classical description of a classical problem. I agree. Duane's first post is going to my printer to be added to my reference files. Excellent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Hobdell Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Hi just my thoughts. Go back to basics on this, try increasing the pressure on the trigger untill the gun goes off, if should actuall feel like you did not know that the gun has gone off it should be a surprise to you. This is how UIT shooters release and the best way for zeroing, what we do in IPSC should be considered a surprised compressed break, we know the gun need to go off, but we are still in control. It's like knowing that the trigger is 1,2 lbs and just pulling the trigger with 1.22 lbs. make any sense to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaman Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 also for further practice on the firing line you can print a target from sportshooter.com where they have a target pulled from the us army marksmanship unit training guide. basically it looks like a pie chart with a bullseye in the middle. if you shoot anything other that a bulls eye and keep realitively good shot groups off hand, it can give you a quicky diagnosis of your shotting technique woes, and perhaps lead to your improvement. anyway, good luck and good shooting.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Why do I always shoot to the left (must be a bad techinque) .... try to shoot faster ( mind you I am new so not like really fast) and No matter what all my rounds spread out to like 5 inches and go low 5 inches and left into the C zone and even some D's. Easy question. When you rush a trigger pull (instead of squeezing it) you get a "sympathetic squeeze" of the right hand that will rotate the muzzle down and left. It is definitely from yanking the trigger. If I had a dollar for every time I've done it, I could buy Donald Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 The only thing on the shooting hand which should move is the trigger finger, and that straight to the rear. Anything else will cause the shot to go to a different point than the aiming point, if right handed, probably left and downward. Don't make this harder than it is. just practice dry firing till you don't move anything but the trigger finger, then you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Yep. And if you think about it, you're not even moving the entire trigger finger. Just the first two joints. From the second knuckle back, the index finger does not move. Just the first two joints, back and forth, back and forth, like a little metronome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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