What IDPA Revolver Division Will You Shoot?

[Headshot45]

it is not a question of what was legal one day and not legal the next.......this is the first rulebook in 4 years.......a couple of changes, basically no different than any other sport, shooting or not, that changes its rules EVERY year......

Lets not argue about this....some of us that have been DEEPLY involved with IDPA for the last 8 years have been asking for the holster changes for the last 3 years....yes, I agree that it sounds ominous......some people who have $19 invested in their "match" holster(Uncle Mikes, which was OBVIOUS why it wasn't legal) might have to buy another holster......woops......so instead they are going to boycott IDPA and go shoot USPSA instead.....okeedokee....or ICORE, and believe me I wish we had that going on down here, but talk about equipment intensive.....BYE!

Any shooter that is going to take his toys and leave are not dedicated IDPA shooters anyway, so shoot somewhere else...we wish you wouldn't, but.....you also won't be missed.

Frank

[jkelly]

headshot45,

Maybe you're right! Who are these people to have opinions and values of there own?

Perhaps it's you that are too "DEEPLY" involved with IDPA to offer an unbiased opinion on the subject. You seem to take this very personality, you should not, it's not about you.

Don't be offended by other people not buying into the rule changes and deciding to leave IDPA. It's not an attack directly on you, but rather your values and theirs are different.

I'm sure those who choose to leave IDPA will miss it and you.

Respectfully,

jdkelly

[COF]

Ted, you're right about the speedloaders. I've got them for my .41 Redhawk but they won't work for the 646.

Shoepop, have you tried the cases in an L-frame speedloader? Not sure if the rims would fit or not.

Jerry

[Bear23]

Personally,

I will continue to support my local club (IDPA), I will not be shooting any sanctioned matches that are IDPA. I had purchased a new 646 that Shoepop helped me out on with the trigger and such and really enjoy it. However, the fun has been taken out by IDPA HQ with the revolver divisions. I now have to work up a new load to make the new power factor and beat the heck out of my gun to do so. L frame and major power factor just don't mix well. I'm going to try some 200 gr moly bullets and work up a load and see how it works out.

I really don't feel like purchasing a 625 4" just for IDPA,

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Personally,

I will continue to support my local club (IDPA), I will not be shooting any sanctioned matches that are IDPA. I had purchased a new 646 that Shoepop helped me out on with the trigger and such and really enjoy it. However, the fun has been taken out by IDPA HQ with the revolver divisions. I now have to work up a new load to make the new power factor and beat the heck out of my gun to do so. L frame and major power factor just don't mix well. I'm going to try some 200 gr moly bullets and work up a load and see how it works out.

I really don't feel like purchasing a 625 4" just for IDPA,

BEAR23,

Here is my major PF load for my 610.

180gr Zero JHP with 4.5gr tightgroup

It is not a brutal load. I had a lot of split cases with 200 gr bullets.

Regards,

[Headshot45]

jdkelly,

I think you are missing my point....I don't want anybody to leave, but USUALLY the ones complaining and threatening to take their toys and never shoot IDPA again are also the same ones that show up about the time of walk-through, rarely help paste, leave immediately after firing their last stage, and don't help tear down and put things away....again I said USUALLY......

I have some concerns about the wording in the new rulebook as well, but I am going to help shooters understand the new rules the best I can, along with teach and certify new SO's about handling the new rules and part of the class is all about NOT being a rules nazi.....

The 2 biggest complaints are the holster situation, which is not as big of a deal as some are making it...if your gun rides closer than the 3/4" yet has a little daylight in the belt tunnel, just do as Bill W. said, heat it up a little and bend it just enough to prevent it. The second complaint is the split in the revolver division.....I don't like that either, but enough members complained that the moonclip guns were the only way to be competitive, and that the N frames didn't fit their hand.....unfortunately I shoot both, an L frame with speedloaders and a 625 with full moons......I shoot the 686 faster and more accurate, but load the 625 slightly faster.......hhmmmmm......also since my 625 is a Mountain Gun the new power floor will slow my shooting down a little more, so I will shoot the 686 more often....

Anyway, I never said that others couldn't have their opinion, but to just up and leave? Those are not people I want at my club....with over 70 shooters at each club match I have enough of the ones who do nothing.....luckily they are the minority here......but as I said, every sport, whether shooting or not changes its rules every year, sometimes not pleasing the participants......but this is the first new rulebook in 4 years, and we will live with it, and as time goes on certain rules will be clarified, and the bad ones will be modified....just give it time.......

Now everybody just go out and make lots of holes with your round guns and have fun......and if you are only shooting at the club level and your holster isn't legal anymore and you do not want to modify it or get a new one, just shoot anyway.....just can't get classified or shoot sanctioned matches....but support your local club.

Frank

[jkelly]

I think you are missing my point....---Headshoot45

Headshoot45,

I think you are missing my point, what you said was rude and belittling. You minimized others financial loss and tirvialized their opinions. You further insulted the same people by suggesting they are slackers, all because they don't share your opinion.

Or maybe I'm taking it to personally,

Respectfully,

jkelly

[Bones]

All clubs are not the same.

Here's some relevant, recent data to augment your morbid predictions.

For the last (5) matches at S&W, the SSR division attendance acounted for 1/4 - 1/6 of the total shooter population, matched or exceeded the CDP attendance in all cases and exceeded the ESP attendance for (3) of the (5). A max of (3) of the SSR shooters were using moonclips in each match. In fact, an SSR shooter using speedloaders won one of those matches against MA & EX class shooters in all divisions. Another of those matches had a record turnout (63 shooters), with speedloading SSR shooters comprising 1/6 of the match population. We have seen several new shooters in SSR, most of them are using speedloaders.

Heres the data:

Date = CDP - ESP - SSP - SSR(moonclip)

9 Dec 04 = 7 - 7 - 14 - 8(1)

18 Dec 04 = 6 - 9- 9 - 8(1)

23 Dec 04 = 7 - 7 - 14 - 8(1)

22 Jan 05 = 11 - 18 - 22 - 12(3)

27 Jan 05 = 8 - 4 - 14 - 8(2)

"News of SSR's death was greatly exaggerated"

[Caspian_45]

Headshot why on Gods green earth would I want to take a perfectly good holster and REmold it so no light will show through the belt tunnel. It will still be the same holster I had to start with. Dave at Kytac made me several GREAT holsters and you say I should alter them just to get rid of the daylight. Ain't happen' dude.

As for people not helping out at the matches you go to. You can ask those that whine about this and that to help fix what they're b!tchn' about. If they decline then you can tell them whatever you want. BUT don't tell where to go if you didn't ask me to help fix the issue.

I think everone on this forum is for makin' the shooting sports better. And they are very supportive of those that want/need help or guidance. Your tone and attitude is very negitive.

Signed

Trying hard not to take it personally.

[snokid]

Headshot

I'm one of the guy's that will not be shooting IDPA anymore because of how the rule change was handled and bill's response when he didn't get the warm reception he was expecting....

I also was the guy that got to the match the day before and set it up, then I ran people thru the match then I stayed after to tear down the match. I also brought new shooters into the sport and took them under my wing to make them feel at home the best I could.

I'm glad you won't be missing me...

Bob

[sgtis108]

I was really debating on whether or not to shoot the Florida State Match. I'm glad I haven't sent my entry fee.

I will shoot SSR because all I have is a S&W model 15. I classified with it, but I've never shot it in a match. I used to think that Moonclip guns had an advantage, but the more I shoot the more I realize that the gun means less and less.

I am still shooting IDPA with a wait and see attitude. I will shoot "The Alabama" this year and just play it by ear from there. I recently shot my first USPSA match and really felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I like the idea of solving the problem MY way. I almost feel now that IDPA by design is very close minded.

[Headshot45]

Wow, a lot of people on here either don't see what I am TRYING to say, can't read or are predisposed of their opinion no matter what the facts are.....that is why I hate trying to make a point on these things....misunderstandings.....and if there are any, my fault and I apologize.....

jkelly, I was not minimizing their loss, just that the only holster pointed out by name to be now illegal is the one from Uncle Mikes.....the fact that it is only $19 was mentioned because it was a minor investment versus a now illegal firearm, not because of what they spent.....again, I hate forums because intent of comments cannot be read, only the words that are shown and the writer has no control over how it is read or what context is taken.....so to you I apologize, but we are just miscommunicating....

Caspian 45, I wasn't saying you HAD to bend your holster, in fact, the shooters down here using KyTacs have no modifications to make to their holsters....they fit the body and the belt within the rules....yours probably does the same thing....just like almost all of the kydex holsters.....depends on how it fits you....not trying to be negative, trying to ask others NOT to be negative....read all of my post, not just a few words....

snokid, again, read ALL of my post.....I said USUALLY....not always....and to as how the rule change was done, well a lot of people were upset over it, it eventually was addressed, and it will continue to be monitored....and you are the kind of shooter that every club wants...never said shooters like you wouldn't be missed.....you would be...you are the kind of shooter that can take part in RUNNING a club and getting involved in the administration end....helping make changes where they are needed.....so please, don't misunderstand me either...and don't leave IDPA...stay and help make it better.....

sgtis108, whatever reason you don't want to shoot the Florida State Match is yours and yours alone.....if you also are offended by my comments, then I am sorry, but they are the facts....I have been in this sport for 8 years....I shot IPSC since 1979 until IDPA came along....I just like it better.....I got rid of my raceguns because I enjoyed shooting my single stack 45, a revolver, and my Glock 19 when I shot IPSC and I liked the more realistic COF's of IDPA....so I have seen changes in both sports....some good, some bad....but eventually things got better....that is what I want from IDPA....I do not think it is perfect....I do not agree with how HQ usually handles things...but it is their game that we play....

If anybody else is offended, it is not my intention...I just was giving my opinion...apparently some here don't want to hear one that is not theirs....too bad.....you guys are all intelligent people and all of us shooters need to stick together to make the shooting sports more enjoyable AND more accessible....yet you don't read complete posts to try to understand what the author is trying to say.....if it is written a certain way that you think is not to your liking you jump on that particular sentence, even if taken out of context......I guess I should know better, but I will continue to post here because I do RESPECT you guys and ALL shooters....we are a minority and we need to change that.

Frank

[jkelly]

Headshot45,

jkelly, I was not minimizing their loss---Headshot45

...some people who have $19 invested in their "match" holster(Uncle Mikes, which was OBVIOUS why it wasn't legal) might have to buy another holster......woops.....---Headshot45

You selected the most inexpensive holster to use as an example of the loss shooters incurred by these rule changes. Some people have lost a couple of hundred dollars (or more) in now illegal holsters and may have to spend a couple hundred dollars more to replace them. To which you qualified with ".....woops.....". I'd say that was minimizing their loss.

Again, what you said was rude, belittling, and insulting. You trivialized others opinions and suggested they are slackers.

This is not taken out of context, it's what you said. If you meant something else then perhaps you should have said something else. The beauty of the internet and it's forums is that it makes you think before you post and then holds you accountable for what you post.

Respectfully,

jkelly

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

1. Wow, a lot of people on here either don't see what I am TRYING to say, can't read or are predisposed of their opinion no matter what the facts are.....that is why I hate trying to make a point on these things....misunderstandings.....and if there are any, my fault and I apologize.....

SNIP

2.

but USUALLY the ones complaining and threatening to take their toys and never shoot IDPA again are also the same ones that show up about the time of walk-through, rarely help paste, leave immediately after firing their last stage, and don't help tear down and put things away....again I said USUALLY

SNIP

3.

.but this is the first new rulebook in 4 years, and we will live with it, and as time goes on certain rules will be clarified, and the bad ones will be modified....just give it time.......

Frank,

I am sure( or at least I hope) what you meant to say and what came across this forum are different.

When a poster uses sweeping generalities such as the quotes in #1 and #2, there is a lot of chance for people to be offended. Personally, I was not offended, but I knew it would send this topic into the abis as it is headed south fast.

For your last statement I quoted. When it takes four years to rewrite a rule book, I would expect it to be done completely and correctly. It was not. With the past track record for clarifications going only to a few, I don't see anything happening. So now, do we wait another four years for the mistakes to be fixed? I don't think so.

Am I leaving IDPA? I won't shoot it as much as I did. I can bring my 625 and all my gear to USPSA. I enjoy that also.

Am I a slacker? I am a SO and work matches in 2 states. I help as much as I can but not as much as others.

I suggest we all take a deep breath, take a step back, read the rules of the BE Forum, and think a little before we continue this topic.

IDPA headquarters has done a severe disservice to all members with the haste in which they instituted the new rule book. They tried to save face by asking for opinions after they caused a stir. They would have better served the sport and the shooters by soliciting the opinions via the TJ last summer, spent a little more time on the finished product, and avoided all the problems that were caused.

A qualified proof reader would have helped also.

Just my opinion, and we all know what they say about those

BTW: Usually=Definition:[adv] under normal conditions;

Synonyms:commonly, normally, ordinarily, unremarkably

[Headshot45]

I agree with everything all of you are saying....even about me....I wasn't trying to insult anyone.....I am also not happy with the way things were done as to the new rulebook.....but I just don't want to see shooters just walk away instead of stay and try to fix things....

Did some of the things I say sound like I was being overly critical? Maybe, after all, and this is no excuse, but most of my posts are around midnight after being up since 5am....again no excuse. But I never wanted to disparage anybody personally...but that is not the way it seems to have gotten across....

and jkelly, most of the more expensive holsters are legal...including Blade Tech, Ky Tac Safariland, Comp Tac, G Code, etc.....and the stupid belt tunnel/daylight rule will have minor effect on some, but again, and I hate this too guys as I have to bend a few of my holsters, a little heat in this area will fix the problem.

I am not an apologist for the way things have been handled by HQ, but I understand what they were ATTEMPTING to do....it just wasn't handled quite right.....and there were knee-jerk reactions on their part, on our part, and they are trying to fix them......there still is work to be done......I'll continue to try to make a difference, what little one person can do, but wish things were simpler.

I also wish I could start over again on my original post, but I can't..I will accept any criticisms you want to level at me, but my intentions were not to start trouble, but to get you guys to not give up on IDPA, but help those of us still trying to make it better...and easier to communicate our displeasures as well as our applauding measures taken.....with that I will sit back and just read from now on...

Frank

[Shoepop]

COF I will keep board informed. Since rules caught us all by surprise I have just started to find a solution for 686 super and 646. 686 is easy, 646 more difficult because of speedloaders and 41 mag rim. I will always be thinking about a fairly easy way for the 646. I just got out of my shop where I turned down rim on 41 cases using a collet in my lathe. It took me a 20 minutes to trim 50 rims to 357 diameter so they work in a speedloader. I know people will say why spend the time. My answer is just because. Any input from out there appreciated.

[jkelly]

I also wish I could start over again on my original post,...---Headshot45

Well said Frank, it's nice to meet you, I'm John.

Respectfully,

jdkelly

[sgtis108]

Headshot 45,

I guess I was a little harsh, sorry. Just sounded a lot like If someone didn't agree with you then.....BYE! I shoot to have fun. Overbearing SO's and people that have no room for others opinions are no fun.

SGT

[COF]

Overbearing SO's and people that have no room for others opinions are no fun.

   

                SGT

Hey, I resemble that remark

Jerry

[GRD]

I have to tell you, Frank, as an SOI myself, I cringed when I read your contributions to this thread. As the anonymity of the internet tends to bring out the worst in people, I can hope you are kinder and more respectful of your students and shooters on the range than you were to the shooters on this forum. The last thing we need is to be flipping people the bird when you are in a position representing IDPA, which as an SOI, you are. The anonymity of the internet can sometimes lead people into saying things that they wouldn't ordinarily say. I hope that was the case here.

That said, I personally have almost $200 in gear that is illegal now for no good reason. I'd be perfectly willing to give it up if there was some compelling reason...if my monentary sacrifice was somehow going to bring the sport closer to the P&P...but it won't. To tell the truth, the discussions on what has been done to the membership and for what end by HQ have been had around here ad infinitum. Everyone's mind is where it is at this point and going over it all again is pointless. What we need is a little understanding that a huge number of the IDPA membership feels slighted - to put it mildly. That reality needs to be respected, not dismissed with a 'don't let the door hit you' thoughtless remark.

When this season starts I'm going have to tell some of our shooters that equipment I recommended to them, and they purchased on my recommendation, last year is now illegal...and I don't have a compelling reason why. When you can take a pot of boiling water and make an illegal holster legal, or a strip of duct tape and make an illegal pouch legal, there is just no way for me to defend rules like that. But I'm going to have to, aren't I?

This current situation isn't as simple as you seem to think it is, Frank. It deserves some respect as a real issue affecting real members.

- Gabe

[roundgunner]

I agree with everything all of you are saying....even about me....I wasn't trying to insult anyone.....I am also not happy with the way things were done as to the new rulebook.....but I just don't want to see shooters just walk away instead of stay and try to fix things....

Try to fix things, besides freeideho who ever gets a response from HQ?

I put a ton of time into being a MD at a state Championship and much more and they have nnneeevvveeerrr returned anyyy of my e-mails ever. What can we do?

I guess I could give back all the paychecks I got from IDPA for helping to bring in people who now are miffed at seeing light thru there $80 bladetech holster.

I will MOST LIKELY shoot my last big match this year at the S&W WinterNationals, oops can't call it that, HQ said only one nationals, in the summer in the south in the 100% humidity 100 degree heat. But we can keep trying to fix things and keep sending e-mails to HQ.

I will shoot local matches with my friends and hope someone with more patience will start something new or keep trying to get a clear, thought out and well done rule book and some one at HQ who won't put us down because we run businesses other than IDPA.

Warren Baker

Former local IDPA chairman, State championship MD, SO, RO and looking for new holsters

[Carmoney]

I check the "won't shoot" option awhile back.

Last week I received the refund I requested from the Illinois State IDPA Championships. And for just a minute, I felt a little bad that I was quitting IDPA. Then I re-read Bill Wilson's response letter to his members after the new rulebook came out, and suddenly I didn't feel one bit bad about leaving!

Lots of matches to look forward to in 2005: I'll be shooting sanctioned USPSA matches this year in Iowa, Florida, Ohio, Missouri, Kansas, and probably Illinois and Minnesota. Plus local club matches around Iowa.

Mike

[Flexmoney]

Sorry that this thread didn't get cleaned up when things were going south. Most of the thread is a pretty strong drift away from what REVOLVER peple were going to shoot.

I'm closing this down to further comments.

The poll wil still stay open. Please add to it.

Administrator