45 GAP bullets pulling?

[S&WIowegan]

I have been loading 45 GAP ammo for 5 or 6 years. The load is Starline brass, Montana Gold 230 gr FMJ, 4.0 gr VV N310, Federal primers, Hearthco moonclips. My loading press is a Dillon Square Deal B dedicated to 45 GAP. I'm using this ammo in IDPA ESR. I made a batch of ammo this spring and have been having bullet pull problems for the first time.

I first noticed the pull in a 325 PD. A bullet pulled out of the brass and stuck in the cylinder. It was kinda funny when I showed clear and got a handful of powder . I cleared the cylinder and shot the next stage. This time a bullet must have pulled out before I fired the round which resulted in a squib stuck in the barrel. The RO and I stopped in time.

So I put the 325 away and used a 4" 625 this weekend. No big problems BUT my one partially fired moonclip had two rounds that were WAY long.

Any ideas why this is happening after years of success? Same brass the whole time.

[MWP]

I finally ended up running all my 625 loads through a factory crimp die (taper), then through a redding roll crimp die. Solved the pulling issues, and turned out very small groups.

[Fabzz613]

ive seen factory 45 bullets pulled in revolvers might just have to tighten the crimp more. also if its the same brass it could be getting a little weak at gripping the bullet as brass hardens as its fired multiple times

[mcb]

Also watch that you are not over crimping. Too much crimp can actually cause a reduction of retention force in some situations.

Make sure your sizing die has not gotten loose and back out some.

How much room do you have in the case? Could you shorten your overall length some for better retention? This would require lowering your powder charge and working the load back up again but might help.

[S&WIowegan]

I should have mentioned I re-crimped all the ammo using the SDB after the first pulling episode. I turned the crimp die lower and definitely got more crimp. My records show the Starline brass has been reloaded 6 times. I've been loading to a COL of 1.17" and could surely shorten that since there's only 4.0 gr. of powder in the case.

I'm thinking I'll also try some Bayou Bullets so the crimp can actually bite into the bullet a bit. What makes this problem funny is the load shoots so soft people laugh and say no way I'm making major.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Bob.

[DougCarden]

Leatham swears by a roll crimp on his 625 ammo, before the Minor guns took over. I would look at a Redding roll crimp die. You can have the body turned down so it will fit in the SDB unit by a machinist. Just take the Dillon unit in and have them measure it up.

DougC

[Shadowrider]

I never did stop bullet pull totally. That is until I went to 200gr RN and seated them way deep and used a Redding profile crimp die to crimp over the shoulder. A regular roll crimp would work fine too, but I went back to 230gr because even with a heavy roll crimp they didn't fall into the cylinder as smoothly. I got some insane chrono consistency though. 3fps extreme spread loading Clays. No lie...

[S&WIowegan]

I never did stop bullet pull totally. That is until I went to 200gr RN and seated them way deep and used a Redding profile crimp die to crimp over the shoulder. A regular roll crimp would work fine too, but I went back to 230gr because even with a heavy roll crimp they didn't fall into the cylinder as smoothly. I got some insane chrono consistency though. 3fps extreme spread loading Clays. No lie...

I'm sure bullet pull is just part of the deal when shooting auto cartridges in revos. I had serious pull in my Short Colts with the moly-coated Billy Bullets(very slick) but not much at all with Bayou Bullets(green gator snot is sticky). I never had the total jump out of the case though as I did with 45 GAP this year.

Thanks for all the ideas.

[pskys2]

I had best luck with a roll crimp and plated bullets in a .45. Don't seem to be as big an issue with 38 minor though.

Could it be you have a combination of some very old brass, it does weaken and a 325 which is a light weight scandium frame. Translation it will recoil more and that is what leads to bullet pull.

[S&WIowegan]

I had best luck with a roll crimp and plated bullets in a .45. Don't seem to be as big an issue with 38 minor though.

Could it be you have a combination of some very old brass, it does weaken and a 325 which is a light weight scandium frame. Translation it will recoil more and that is what leads to bullet pull.

That's where I'm headed on this Dave.....plated or coated lead bullets with roll crimp. What roll crimp die do you use for this stubby cartridge?

FYI: The 325 is going to be for sale. I wouldn't carry it for PD with the bullet jump problem.

Bob.

[pskys2]

I had best luck with a roll crimp and plated bullets in a .45. Don't seem to be as big an issue with 38 minor though.

Could it be you have a combination of some very old brass, it does weaken and a 325 which is a light weight scandium frame. Translation it will recoil more and that is what leads to bullet pull.

That's where I'm headed on this Dave.....plated or coated lead bullets with roll crimp. What roll crimp die do you use for this stubby cartridge?

FYI: The 325 is going to be for sale. I wouldn't carry it for PD with the bullet jump problem.

Bob.

Lee 45 auto rim die.

[S&WIowegan]

I'm working on Dave's suggestion to use a roll crimp Lee 45 AR die which it turns out I already have. However, it's a taper crimp so I called Lee. Lee is sending me two .45 Colt roll crimp sleeves which they tell me will go in the 45 AR taper die. The key here is to put both 45 Colt sleeves in together so the crimp can reach the 45 GAP brass. I'll let you know how it works out.

Bob.

[gp100man]

I have been loading 45 GAP ammo for 5 or 6 years. The load is Starline brass, Montana Gold 230 gr FMJ, 4.0 gr VV N310, Federal primers, Hearthco moonclips. My loading press is a Dillon Square Deal B dedicated to 45 GAP. I'm using this ammo in IDPA ESR. I made a batch of ammo this spring and have been having bullet pull problems for the first time.

I first noticed the pull in a 325 PD. A bullet pulled out of the brass and stuck in the cylinder. It was kinda funny when I showed clear and got a handful of powder . I cleared the cylinder and shot the next stage. This time a bullet must have pulled out before I fired the round which resulted in a squib stuck in the barrel. The RO and I stopped in time.

So I put the 325 away and used a 4" 625 this weekend. No big problems BUT my one partially fired moonclip had two rounds that were WAY long.

Any ideas why this is happening after years of success? Same brass the whole time.

Gosh, that happened to me in match. The gun made a little bunny fart. That is weird enough. I opened the cylinder, got a mess of gunpowder and then looked down and saw a bullet on the ground. It took me a few seconds to put it all together. I could pull a moon clip after shooting four rounds and see how far the bullet extended. An ACP round probably would have bound the cylinder, but the GAP isn't long enough and just falls out when they cylinder rotates. I was using Bayou and Barry's bullets. I ended up tightening the crimp (I know - it is there to take the bell out). I would push on a round against my wood workbench and when it got to the point that I could not push it in anymore, I stopped. No more problems after that. Good luck.

Steve

[S&WIowegan]

Steve,

What crimp die did you use to tighten the brass hold?

[gp100man]

I checked and I'm using the standard dillon taper die. Steve