George Post Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Hello, I was just wondering, what would it take to have a wifi hot spot in my sandwich shop. I mean starting from zero. I'm thinking I'll need to get cable, cable modem to PC, to some kind of wifi card? How do I offer it to attract customers. Heck, if it costs $50 a month for internet access I would need to attract at least $300 a month additional business, just to break even. What other cost might there be? Thanks for any advice at all George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 A free hotspot? You could get by with just a cable modem ($100/mo for commercial access here) or DSL and an access point / router ($50+ one time) plugged into it. Wouldn't be the fanciest setup, but it would be cheap and easy to maintain. AMD is trying to make a bit of a splash with their "AMD Free-Zone" here in town, but I've heard the store owner doesn't get much more than a poster for the window, but you might want to check into it anyway. A pretty good number of places are doing the free WiFi thing here, so there must be something to it. Somebody on the radio is trying to market turnkey pay WiFi stations on the old payphone model. I think those are doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Hey George, what you would need is a wireless router. They run about $50 if you shop around. However you should give some thought to potential liability. It only take one a-hole to give you grief. First off you will be responsible for the behavior of your customers to the cable company. Even more annoying, I hope you never have to deal with the Secret Service when some idiot sends a threat to the President from your shop. TRUST ME! I've had to deal with that problem and they have no sense of humor. That being said, I suspect there are ways to fix some of these problems. Maybe you should talk to your broadband supplier and ask if they have a business account of a type suitable for what you want. They might even have a prepackaged solution for you. Maybe walk into Borders and ask them who their provider is? Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Maybe walk into Borders and ask them who their provider is?Vlad Borders = T-mobile. They're my transmit spot away from home along with Kinko's and Starbucks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I'll do some digging - there is a free linux package you can get if you want to offer controlled WiFi access. If, for example, there was a problem with non-customer freeloaders, this system allows you to pre-print cards good for a couple of hours access from the time they are first used, and these could be offered to customers. You could also give out free "access cards" to customers who sign a log book so you know who is using your system. I'll dig out the info and post it. The downside is that you need to know the basics of maintaining a Linux system to support such a service. One thing to watch with cable/dsl connections is that some providers are going to tell you that offering public access requires a different ($$$) category of service. As to the "criminal threat" issue - it's a valid concern. Even if the issue is closed for Vlad, I wonder if he'll find a car full of dark suits with earpieces in front of his home or business whenever a high ranking dignitary is in his town. Although there does not appear to be any statuatory authority for doing so (which does not seem as important to the government these days as it once did), the BATF agent at the NICS seminar I attended a few years ago mentioned that the Secret Service has a system to add people to a "no gun buy" list. We were told no conviction or charge is needed - if the secret service adds you to that list, NICS will generate an automatic rejection. Another issue is the RIAA suits. People always talk about defending themselves, but once the reality of defending against a federal copyright suits sets in, the target pays what they are told to settle the case. Also, the $300-$50 analogy may be flawed. Your shops profit margin may be $50 on $300, but an extra $300 in business probably brings in more than $50 in incremental revenue since there is no accompanying increase in shop rent or employees. If wireless takes you to the point where you have to increase your general overhead to support the additonal business (doubtful), you'll be well past the breakeven point. Plus, you will be able to check the Enos forums during the slow times. If you get a router, I recommend a b/g model, and turn off any non-standard proprietary speed enhancements. My SMC b/g router hung up on occasion the first day I installed it, but has been nothing less than flawless since I disabled the proprietary "G-Nitro" speed boost to run "standard G". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 As to the "criminal threat" issue - it's a valid concern. Even if the issue is closed for Vlad, I wonder if he'll find a car full of dark suits with earpieces in front of his home or business whenever a high ranking dignitary is in his town. Heh that would be funny, but I doubt it. I was involved in the role of the sysadmin running a 40k user system from which such an email originated, I wasn't the target of their investigation ... just the guy digging through logs and trying to explain mail forwarding and RFC822 mail headers to two guys who never heard of either. Hey George, we are not trying to scare you. I think its a good idea and more people should do it. However you may be better off trying to get a prepackaged deal managed by someone else (thus removing the liability to some extent) assuming the pricing is reasonable. Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 As someone who lives where there is no broadband access of any type besides satellite, I use paid-for and free wifi in restaurants on a regular basis. Starbucks, who probably represents the largest system in America has left their email ports open, which gives you some idea of how they view the liability situation. The trendy cafe on the south hill that has free wifi, blocked their email ports so all email has to be web-based there. I think you'll see more business from it. People will tend to stay longer and thus spend more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 www.publicip.net has information about setting up a controlled public hotspot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I was just wondering, what would it take to have a wifi hot spot in my sandwich shop. I mean starting from zero. I'm thinking I'll need to get cable, cable modem to PC, to some kind of wifi card? Hey George - you've almost got it here. You'll need the cable modem (or DSL if you can get it), the service and a wireless router! WiFi cards go in the laptops. You're wireless router sends to their cards. I just bought a wireless router and they're about $50.00. The service (for personal use, not sure about business use) is $50/month through charter for cable internet. As for pulling in people, it really depends on where you are. I think, here in rural Tennesse it wouldn't make a rats ass bit of difference! BUT, if you're near a college, or in a metropolitan area it could be a big draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 If you have a busy location or limited seating would this be good? While I know some people don't spend that much time on their net business would this "clog" your seating up with people spending a lot more of your time than their money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 As someone who lives where there is no broadband access of any type besides satellite, I use paid-for and free wifi in restaurants on a regular basis. Starbucks, who probably represents the largest system in America has left their email ports open, which gives you some idea of how they view the liability situation. The trendy cafe on the south hill that has free wifi, blocked their email ports so all email has to be web-based there. I think you'll see more business from it. People will tend to stay longer and thus spend more. Email port blocking does not change the fact that one could post criminal threats from a web based email system - which is also traceable to the IP address. This is really more of an issue for home users with unprotected wifi than for businesses which have a greater decree of plausible deniability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Post Posted January 8, 2005 Author Share Posted January 8, 2005 Hello everyone, I really overwelmed by all the responses here, Thank you all very much, I could just be a little over my head on this one. I'm going to contact my local cable/internet people and see if they have a commercial account and advice for doing this kind of thing. My thought on it was get it up and running, put a sign in the window, advertise it on coupons, then when and if anyone wanted to access it I would give them the daily password. That way i would limit it to my customers and not anyone who was just driving by and had netstumbler running and picked up my hotspot. I had little or no thoughts about it being used maliciously. I may have to consult my attorney before moving on with this project. I'll let you know if I do anything with this, In the mean time I'll do more research. Thank you all vey much George Ps the Idea of Vlad trying to explain remailers and spoofed email to a couple of feds is intriguing, would have liked to have been a fly on the wall for that one, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Picking up on EricW’s point about blocked e-mail sending (blocking port 25), there is an available service that is dirt cheap and get’s around that for folks who need to send POP mail from WiFi systems that block port 25. http://www.dyndns.org has a service called Mailhop Outbound where for $15 to $35 a year (depending on your daily traffic requirements) they give you an account and accept your mail on a high port (2025 or 10025) to their server and then forward it on for you. This gets around WiFi services that block POP e-mail sending and a whole lot of them do nowadays. BTW, go for it George. WiFi is a very important thing to the modern day road warrior and intrepid urban internet surfer. If you build it, they will come. Personally, I believe in open access and leave my own home node open (SSID off and no password), but do firewall my system with an additional router and port blocking on the machines. Free bandwidth to the world! -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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