long range shots in 3 gun question.

[EC803]

Hey everyone Ive only been competition shooting for 5 months now and I have my first major match soon. All the local and club matches I've done have been in small bays and 3 gun nation format. At the end of the month I'm shooting the area 6 multigun championship. There will be shots out to 400 yards. I just built my competition rifle in February,its a tac driver to 100 yards but I have yet to shoot longer distance. Alsoive only used cheap 55gr ammo up to this point. My question is how should I go about figuring out which ammo to shoot on the long shots and what is the best way to practice for those stages. Thanks

Edited June 4, 2014 by EC803

[ParaGunner]

Test different ammo at 400yrds is the only way to find out.

[toothandnail]

I shot wolf, tula, brown bear, out to 500 yds for years, no problems.

If your gonna change ammo, better test it at the distance you'll be shooting at.

[EC803]

The few people I have asked said they shoot a heavier bullet on the long distance stages. Give me some opinions do y'all agree with that.

[toothandnail]

Heavier bullets won't be as affected by wind, also rock the flasher more if that type is used(easier for the RO's to see hits)

In my barrel, the heavier bullets are quite a bit off from the light ones, about 1" low(not bad) but about 1.5" left at 100 yds.

For ME, that's too much to keep in mind when streching out distance.

[alma]

You will likely be okay with 55 gn out to 400. I recommend using the Strelok+or iStrelok apps so you know your holds or clicks at any distance with your load of choice.

[EC803]

I use a Burris tac30 BTW so I do have a bdc reticle but obviously I haven't done any long distance testing with it yet but I plan to very soon. Just getting ideas from the forum at this point.

[Ethanolguy]

I agree with heavier bullets for long range. 62-69 grain bullets are probably best for 400 yard shots. will depend on the barrel twist. Some people won't notice a difference, but that will depend on their gun and their own abilities.

[Jadeslade]

more important to chrono your ammo, run a jbm ballistics chart to get yourself in the ballpark and if you can, put up a piece of poster board like you get for kids projects at 400 yds and see where your shots are hitting. it takes some time, but you have to learn where you need to hold on your reticle on your gun. sometimes worth it to dial up. a larue at 400 is smaller than is usually suggested -it's not 4moa, more like 2 moa. so you might need to do all that and use Kentucky windage. take 3 shots and be done, don't go to war with it

[alma]

Here is the Sterlok+ app. Is this the right reticle?

Edited June 5, 2014 by alma

[MarkCO]

Wind deflection is not a big deal to me. At say 400 in a 10mph wind, you are going to have to hold off a 12" plate 18" with 55s or 14" with 69s (for a center hit).

I use the 69s past about 300 yards because they are more accurate and the extra energy to move the targets is beneficial as compared to the 55 fmjs. The 55 fmjs are a bit less $ and they are fine out to about 300. If target energy is not a big deal, I will use a premium 55 over a 69.

When I start out with a load, I do chrono, but you will find the manufacturer's BC claims are not always going to be correct due to a variety of factors, including atmosphere. I shoot groups at 100, and then shoot the same hold at 300 and measure the actual drop. For instance, USPSA metric, hold the center of the head at BOTH 100 and 300 yards and then check the drop to see if it is correct. You will likely have to true the BC a tad if you want the best results.

But, in reality, It comes down to the target position, when in the stage and the target size. Most people can get a hit on a 12" gong from the bench at 400 yards, but after running 50 yards and in an unpracticed position...that racks up the misses. So, practice sprints, and then shooting from pallets set on end, barricades, edge of walls, etc. Take clays and put them out on the berm at 100 yards and figure out what it takes to hit them on the first shot every time. Rushing the shot, or not taking the time to employ the fundamentals is why most people miss.

Last, in your stage prep at the match, keep your stage plan in tact on the long range stuff. If the target is a 10 second miss, dumping 15 rounds and 25 seconds on it will result in a worse score than 3 rounds in 5 and moving on. I have literally seen top competitors toss away a match win camped out on a target that got them.

Bottom line, you have to employ the fundamentals in practice in order to be able to rely on them in the match.

[EC803]

That's the right reticle. I wish I had more time to figure all this out. Lol 25 days. I have a Saturn barrel 1/8 twist 18 inch rifle gas. Double fluted I really like it. Very light and accurate. At 100 anyway.

[EC803]

Thanks MarkCO good info. I like the idea of shooting center head with main cross hair to see actual drop so I have a better understanding of what my bullet is doing.

[EC803]

Thanks MarkCO good info. I like the idea of shooting center head with main cross hair to see actual drop so I have a better understanding of what my bullet is doing.

[alma]

That's the right reticle. I wish I had more time to figure all this out. Lol 25 days. I have a Saturn barrel 1/8 twist 18 inch rifle gas. Double fluted I really like it. Very light and accurate. At 100 anyway.

If you can chronograph your ammo, find your scope hight, and look up your ballistic coefficient then you should be able to use a calculator to get close enough.

[uncledoc]

Thanks MarkCo......I am new to long range shooting and the info you provided is what I needed!

[uncledoc]

Alma, thanks for posting the images....I will have to check out the app for sure.....

[Shooter ready]

Wind deflection is not a big deal to me. At say 400 in a 10mph wind, you are going to have to hold off a 12" plate 18" with 55s or 14" with 69s (for a center hit).

I use the 69s past about 300 yards because they are more accurate and the extra energy to move the targets is beneficial as compared to the 55 fmjs. The 55 fmjs are a bit less $ and they are fine out to about 300. If target energy is not a big deal, I will use a premium 55 over a 69.

When I start out with a load, I do chrono, but you will find the manufacturer's BC claims are not always going to be correct due to a variety of factors, including atmosphere. I shoot groups at 100, and then shoot the same hold at 300 and measure the actual drop. For instance, USPSA metric, hold the center of the head at BOTH 100 and 300 yards and then check the drop to see if it is correct. You will likely have to true the BC a tad if you want the best results.

But, in reality, It comes down to the target position, when in the stage and the target size. Most people can get a hit on a 12" gong from the bench at 400 yards, but after running 50 yards and in an unpracticed position...that racks up the misses. So, practice sprints, and then shooting from pallets set on end, barricades, edge of walls, etc. Take clays and put them out on the berm at 100 yards and figure out what it takes to hit them on the first shot every time. Rushing the shot, or not taking the time to employ the fundamentals is why most people miss.

Last, in your stage prep at the match, keep your stage plan in tact on the long range stuff. If the target is a 10 second miss, dumping 15 rounds and 25 seconds on it will result in a worse score than 3 rounds in 5 and moving on. I have literally seen top competitors toss away a match win camped out on a target that got them.

Bottom line, you have to employ the fundamentals in practice in order to be able to rely on them in the match.

Thanks MarkCO that is simply the best advice I have ever read, heard or saw for the long range shots. Thank You for helping everyone (including me) make 3gun more fun and enjoyable.

[Tim/GA]

I will be shooting A6 as well. Remember, Shannon said out to 400yds- how many at that range? Most likely not many. Most major matches have the majority of long shots at 300 and under and 55grn works fine. If it is accurate in your rifle. That takes time and a range that you can shoot out that far. Then you have to ask yourself if the amount of practice/testing time you have is worth spending a lot of it at 400yds or better to spend that limited time moving and shooting from odd positions from 100 out to 300.

That said, don't overlook knowing your holds and practicing from 3 to 100yds either. Amazing how many people don't know their hold over for a 10yd shot. Not a big deal on the many "burn em down" stages we all love and see where you are keeping 5 to 6 pieces of brass in the air at a time. Throw a 1/2 sized target or 2 with half covered by hard cover or no shoot and see the mikes add up since people don't know where to hold and only practice long distance.

[Tim/GA]

Oh yeah, LOVE Strelok + Cheap and effective, especially for getting on target when you start and then for reminding yourself what you should be seeing on each target in a match.

[DaveG]

Most 3 gun targets are going to be within 50 yards, just learn you holds and you will be fine with the 55g. At the USPSA nationals in Vegas there were only about 6 to 8 targets over 100 yeards and all you have to do is hit it, no tac driving needed. All I use is a Aim Point pro and do just fine with the long range targets, my problem is my pistol. LOL