fishhunter3 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) thinking setting up a stage with a visual start, Thinking of a series of ports that open the 1st one will open with a timer. I have a ced 7000 that has the output port and if you hook a relay that would release a port to start. and then poppers to open the others. would this work. I think it could be fun and something that you don't see every day Edited April 5, 2014 by fishhunter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Sounds interesting. I could see this being a fun and challenging stage as long as there are few (if any) malfunctions that occur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yeah, I was considering something like that. My main concern was how to make an easy to disconnect plug from the timer to be able to follow the shooter when they move away from the start position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yeah, I was considering something like that. My main concern was how to make an easy to disconnect plug from the timer to be able to follow the shooter when they move away from the start position. Wires break! Also, you would have to make sure that the time from the button push to the first port opening is the same for all the shooters or you would wind up with re-shoots or having to toss the stage. Interesting idea but the devil is in the details! Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag316 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Yeah, I was considering something like that. My main concern was how to make an easy to disconnect plug from the timer to be able to follow the shooter when they move away from the start position. Wires break! Also, you would have to make sure that the time from the button push to the first port opening is the same for all the shooters or you would wind up with re-shoots or having to toss the stage. Interesting idea but the devil is in the details! Out of curiosity, why? There's already variation in when shooters start with an audible start, because different ROs have different patterns between "Stand by" and hitting the button. As long as it's relatively consistent, I don't think you can really toss the stage if it's 2.5 vs 3 seconds for two different shooters. I could see this if it were a full second or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Yeah, I was considering something like that. My main concern was how to make an easy to disconnect plug from the timer to be able to follow the shooter when they move away from the start position. Wires break! Also, you would have to make sure that the time from the button push to the first port opening is the same for all the shooters or you would wind up with re-shoots or having to toss the stage. Interesting idea but the devil is in the details! Out of curiosity, why? There's already variation in when shooters start with an audible start, because different ROs have different patterns between "Stand by" and hitting the button. As long as it's relatively consistent, I don't think you can really toss the stage if it's 2.5 vs 3 seconds for two different shooters. I could see this if it were a full second or more. It is not the time between standby and the start signal. I am talking about the time between the timer starting and the targets coming visible. With an audible start the beep and the timer start at more or less the same time (probably within milliseconds). After that, it is all on the shooter's reaction time. In this example of a visual start, the timer starts silently and then after whatever delay is in the mechanical system, the targets are presented. Different animal. And while you and probably other shooters may not notice/care about 0.5 seconds, you can bet damn sure that a GM will and those are the guys who would arb the stage and get it thrown out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhunter3 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Yeah, I was considering something like that. My main concern was how to make an easy to disconnect plug from the timer to be able to follow the shooter when they move away from the start position. Wires break! Also, you would have to make sure that the time from the button push to the first port opening is the same for all the shooters or you would wind up with re-shoots or having to toss the stage. Interesting idea but the devil is in the details! Out of curiosity, why? There's already variation in when shooters start with an audible start, because different ROs have different patterns between "Stand by" and hitting the button. As long as it's relatively consistent, I don't think you can really toss the stage if it's 2.5 vs 3 seconds for two different shooters. I could see this if it were a full second or more. It is not the time between standby and the start signal. I am talking about the time between the timer starting and the targets coming visible. With an audible start the beep and the timer start at more or less the same time (probably within milliseconds). After that, it is all on the shooter's reaction time. In this example of a visual start, the timer starts silently and then after whatever delay is in the mechanical system, the targets are presented. Different animal. And while you and probably other shooters may not notice/care about 0.5 seconds, you can bet damn sure that a GM will and those are the guys who would arb the stage and get it thrown out! why would there be a .05 sec delay, last time I checked elect signals travel pretty fast and relays work very fast too, dont expect any delays it all depends on how its put together. and I have been planning this for awhile, and for the timmer there wont be much movement so DCing the timmer from the wires won't be an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 why would there be a .05 sec delay, last time I checked elect signals travel pretty fast and relays work very fast too, dont expect any delays it all depends on how its put together. and I have been planning this for awhile, and for the timmer there wont be much movement so DCing the timmer from the wires won't be an issue Actually, I would expect that the propagation of the signal to the solenoid would be somewhere in the order of .4-.7 x C. (C= ~ 3x108 meters/second) but I think the electrical delay would be dominated by the inductance of the solenoid and the output impedance of the timer and the transmission line. But that's not really relevant. What is relevant, is that mechanical stuff breaks. Hinges and bolts accumulate dirt. Hinges go out of rig. Doors start to rub. Things get shot either directly or by splatter. Plan for the unexpected. I am not saying to not do this. I am saying make abso-friggin-lutely sure that the device will operate with the same performance for the entire match. Do not underestimate Capt. Murphy. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okorpheus Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Just curious, is it legal to have a self start like 3 gun nation stages in USPSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Just curious, is it legal to have a self start like 3 gun nation stages in USPSA There is nothing prohibiting them and in fact, the 'creeping" penalty has an exclusion for self-start: 10.2.6 A competitor who is creeping (e.g. moving hands towards the handgun, a reloading device or ammunition) or physically moving to a more advantageous shooting position or posture at the start signal, will incur one procedural penalty. 10.2.6.1 Exception: any movement required or specified in the stage briefing (i.e., self start) will not be penalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) Simple solution. Make the first shooting position where the targets become available, 10-15 yards from the start location. Now we are back to shooter reaction time to the visual start signal being the major variable. I like the idea. Edited April 15, 2014 by lawboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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