Long day, more questions

[jayhkr]

So I spent most of the day today setting up my new dillon sdb. Did the spent primer modification and bolted it up to the bench. Started the process of dialing in the dies, had them all where I thought was good. Then I went and did something and was going to do a dozen practice rounds (no primer/powder) when I noticed both my case mouth belling and bullet seating die had mysteriously moved....a bunch. Like the case went from just barely any flare to looking like a trombone bell and my bullet shrunk to almost nothing. That was my first question is what could have happened here for that to do that? I was adjusting everything without the failsafe rod attached but that's it. When I was doing the ones that messed up I had it attached. Could that had made everything off?

Second question has to do with OAL. I have a case gage and was also using my glock 19 and M&P Shield barrel. Loading 124gr plated .356 9mm with titegroup and assorted range brass. So the load books, manuals and website all say to load at 1.125 with 3.6-4.0gr. Someone had suggested to try to load longer if my barrels would allow to reduce pressure. Think they suggested 1.15. So I made some dummy rounds at varying lengths to test them in both the case gage and barrels. Made 1.125, 1.135, 1.140, and 1.15. They all passed the case gage, and they all slid in the barrels but didn't slide out at all. I'm wondering if thats due to the plated bullets since they are not as smooth as jacketed ones. So I decided to put them in my magazines and do a slide cycle. Each one of them alowed the slide to go into battery. (Not sure if this is even an acceptable way of testing) So how do I know what length will work if the barrel drop doesn't work? I took some pictures of the bullets in the barrel so hopefully that will shed a little light on things too. In really appreciate everyone's help with this! I thinkttomorrow will be live rounds then off to the range with them. Plan on keeping the powder at 3.6 & 3.7. No need to go hog wild plus it saves on that precious powder I have so little of. Need to get a bullet puller tomorrow to take apart all the dummy rounds I madecand to inspect the crimps. On to the pictures.

I think this was at 1.135

This is at 1.15

As you can see they aren't dropping out at all.

My attempt at a crimp, suggestions, comments on these?

[Steve RA]

Well, first it appears the ones in the pics are loaded too long. When they are dropped in they should end up even with the barrel hood.

Pull a bullet and see if it has a ring around it where the end of the case was, if so, too much crimp. Case neck tension is what holds the bullet from "pushback", not crimp (except revolver bullets with a crimp groove, which is applied with a roll crimp die) and all you want to do is remove the flare from the case mouth. Look at factory loads, the case is straight at the top and can be checked with a straight edge.

Also, if there is too much crimp it can cause the case to bulge slightly below the crimped area which will sometimes allow the cartridge to drag in the chamber.

Try shortening the seating depth until the head of the case is flush with the barrel hood and see how that works.

[jayhkr]

I'll give it a go tomorrow when I get my bullet puller. I appreciate the feedback.

[Steve RA]

Let us know how it turns out.

[GJGary]

Are those coated? They kind of look like it.

They definitely have to be loaded short according to your pics.

When you do the push test push it in with a little force and twist with a needle nose. You will see where it hits the lands/rifling in the barrel.

This is not good and creates more pressure and with titegroup could be magnified.

So make sure it drops into the barrel and spins freely since your bullet is more user friendly with a 357 Sig than 9mm. You should look for a more pointed round nose that will load to the oals you started with.

[Hi-Power Jack]

set up my dillon sdb. the case looked like a trombone and my bullet shrunk to almost nothing.

they all slid in the barrels but didn't slide out. Each one of them alowed the slide to go into battery.

appreciate everyone's help with this! tomorrow will be live rounds then off to the range with them.

1. is it possible that your trombones were on a .38 super case?

2. if they went into battery, your OAL is just fine, but sounds like not enough crimp and that's keeping rounds in - but I'd guess that too little crimp wouldn't allow it to go into battery, either. You sure they went into battery? Can you spin the rounds in the chamber?

3. I'd solve some of these problems before I went out to the range with live rounds.

[Gandof]

The rounds in the pictures are definitely not fully chambered. It can only be one of three things: Sizing/Crimp/OAL. Check them all before moving on.

Good luck!

[kbeck76]

That looks like an SNS 124 coated 9mm bullet? I just loaded 500 of these and had to load them shorter because of the bullet profile. If this is the SNS 124 the profile is much different than other 124 bullets I have loaded (Bayou, BBI). Even the SNS 125 9mm has a much COAL friendlier profile.

Disregard if that isn't an SNS 124

Kevin

[jayhkr]

That looks like an SNS 124 coated 9mm bullet? I just loaded 500 of these and had to load them shorter because of the bullet profile. If this is the SNS 124 the profile is much different than other 124 bullets I have loaded (Bayou, BBI). Even the SNS 125 9mm has a much COAL friendlier profile. Disregard if that isn't an SNS 124 Kevin

Good eye sir! These are SNS' s 124. I will go with the 125 on my next order. Do you recall the oal you used? Headed downstairs in a bit to keep playing with this. I have no intentions going to the range until all is good. I will twist them to see how short I do need to go. My only question is what if I go past the recommended oal of 1.125? Will that cause to much pressure? See tried to save a few bucks going plated and it seems to be causing issues.

Thanks for all the help!

[Steve RA]

Just seat the bullet so the base of the case is even with the hood of the barrel and you'll be good to go.

[G17]

Are you sure the OAL is the problem. I had this same issue recently, as i am a new reloader also. It was the case it'self getting stuck in the chamber, it didn't have anything to do with the oal. I kept thinking i had to load shorter and shorter and in all reality it was the case itself.

Besides lets say the oal is way to long and the bullet is hitting the rifling, it's not going to cause the case to get stuck in the chamber like that.

Make sure your sizing all the way down. What are you measuring your crimp at?

Maybe paint a case with a black sharpie and stick it in there. Might give you a better idea whats holding it up.

[G17]

I don't know if you visited my thread that is a few down entitled "need help with 115gr MG JHPS".

A member posted this link and when i did as instructed i then realise my issue had nothing to do with oal.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.msg189131#msg189131

The reason my cases were getting stuck in the chamber, and when i mean stuck i mean i literally had to get a screwdriver to pry it out because just pinching with my fingers wasn't working, was a combo of my sizing not going down enough and not a proper crimp. I'm crimping at .375 and all seems to be good now.

Initially i kept loaded my projectile shorter and shorter because i thought the oal was too long, but when i followed the steps in that link i realised that it had nothing to do with the oal.

[kbeck76]

That looks like an SNS 124 coated 9mm bullet? I just loaded 500 of these and had to load them shorter because of the bullet profile. If this is the SNS 124 the profile is much different than other 124 bullets I have loaded (Bayou, BBI). Even the SNS 125 9mm has a much COAL friendlier profile. Disregard if that isn't an SNS 124 Kevin

Good eye sir! These are SNS' s 124. I will go with the 125 on my next order. Do you recall the oal you used? Headed downstairs in a bit to keep playing with this. I have no intentions going to the range until all is good. I will twist them to see how short I do need to go. My only question is what if I go past the recommended oal of 1.125? Will that cause to much pressure? See tried to save a few bucks going plated and it seems to be causing issues.

Thanks for all the help!

I loaded them to 1.092 for my CZ 75 SP-01 and 1.122 for my RIA 1911. I used powder charges on the low end of the range because I had to load them short. I have loaded about 2000 of the Bayou 124 and a few hundred of the 125 BBI and didn't have this issue because those bullets have a different (more pointed) profile. I will use the 125 SNS the next time I order from them. There is another thread on that bullet I found when I encountered this issue:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=170158

Kevin

[RDA]

Besides lets say the oal is way to long and the bullet is hitting the rifling, it's not going to cause the case to get stuck in the chamber like that.

It very well could.

Make sure your sizing all the way down. What are you measuring your crimp at?

Maybe paint a case with a black sharpie and stick it in there. Might give you a better idea whats holding it up.

In general, I would measure the case and compare to SAAMI specs. The sharpie idea can also be helpful.

[jayhkr]

set up my dillon sdb. the case looked like a trombone and my bullet shrunk to almost nothing.

they all slid in the barrels but didn't slide out. Each one of them alowed the slide to go into battery.

appreciate everyone's help with this! tomorrow will be live rounds then off to the range with them.

1. is it possible that your trombones were on a .38 super case?

2. if they went into battery, your OAL is just fine, but sounds like not enough crimp and that's keeping rounds in - but I'd guess that too little crimp wouldn't allow it to go into battery, either. You sure they went into battery? Can you spin the rounds in the chamber?

3. I'd solve some of these problems before I went out to the range with live rounds.

Very well vould had been. I'm currently using that case as part of my spent primer tube mod! I thought I went over every case prior to all this but I might had missed one, which would make sense.

Well when I put them in the magazine and slid the slide back and released it, the slide went all the way forward with no issues. Only time it got hung up was when I didn't let the slide snap forward.

I fully pkan to be sure all is good prior to my first outing! Thank you!!

Are you sure the OAL is the problem. I had this same issue recently, as i am a new reloader also. It was the case it'self getting stuck in the chamber, it didn't have anything to do with the oal. I kept thinking i had to load shorter and shorter and in all reality it was the case itself.

Besides lets say the oal is way to long and the bullet is hitting the rifling, it's not going to cause the case to get stuck in the chamber like that.

Make sure your sizing all the way down. What are you measuring your crimp at?

Maybe paint a case with a black sharpie and stick it in there. Might give you a better idea whats holding it up.

Crimp is at .377-.378, same as favtory.

I will try putting carbon from a candle on them to test. Thank you.

I don't know if you visited my thread that is a few down entitled "need help with 115gr MG JHPS".

A member posted this link and when i did as instructed i then realise my issue had nothing to do with oal.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.msg189131#msg189131

The reason my cases were getting stuck in the chamber, and when i mean stuck i mean i literally had to get a screwdriver to pry it out because just pinching with my fingers wasn't working, was a combo of my sizing not going down enough and not a proper crimp. I'm crimping at .375 and all seems to be good now.

Initially i kept loaded my projectile shorter and shorter because i thought the oal was too long, but when i followed the steps in that link i realised that it had nothing to do with the oal.

I will read that nest. Thanks for the link.