RKooi Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 I don't think we have to define every little descriptor in the book, I sure hope not I'm with you. If the stage designer wants the shooter to start with both feet flat on the ground insided the confines of the box then he/she should state it clearly in the stage description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Yup, we really really needed this rule. One more step in the direction of PC and Bullseye. What was so bad before? You described a start position and it was up top the shooter to get into that position. THe less you wrote the more latitude the shooter had, now, If I say nothing what happens? The rule says: Standing erect facing down range, but WHERE? If I don't say at the XX's, or in the box or at the right rear corner of the stage or something else, where does the competitor stand? Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 I started to merge this thread with the other "in the box thread", but this one has a clear difference...we are talking about ITB for the start position. I changed the title to show that a bit more. 1. I have no problem with having the (new 8.2.2) "default start position". Sometimes the local MD's don't get the start position into their stage diagram/briefing as well as they should. Having a default prevents guys like me from starting with my hand on the gun. 2. On the ITB issue. It should be consistent with other aspects of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnia1911 Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 I started to merge this thread with the other "in the box thread", but this one has a clear difference...we are talking about ITB for the start position. I changed the title to show that a bit more.1. I have no problem with having the (new 8.2.2) "default start position". Sometimes the local MD's don't get the start position into their stage diagram/briefing as well as they should. Having a default prevents guys like me from starting with my hand on the gun. 2. On the ITB issue. It should be consistent with other aspects of the game. 8.2.3 prevents you from starting with your hand on the gun. Stage designers and match officials need to learn to write a clear and precise start position. There is no need for a default start position. A poorly written COF is the same as bad course design. Both should be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 8.2.3 is one of the reasons you need a default position like 8.2.2 Without it, the whole COF could get tossed! It would be great if all "stage designers and match official" got it perfect every time. But, I don't live in that world. Having a "default" is good CYA. It hurts nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 FWIW, the materials used to make the "start box" or fault line are not considered "neutral zone". They are an extension of what could be called "fair ground" for the competitor. Touching the ground outside of the fault line is a procedural violation of the start position or a procedural penalty if firing a shot. Standing on the fault lines is not a violation and is a legal start position. If for some reason the stage briefing says you may not start on the fault lines, then you must start completely inside the box, or behind the fault line, not on top or over it. However, this must be written in the stage briefing. It should not be ad libbed by the CRO. This is why it's important to have a clearly written but complete stage briefing, one which includes where you must be in order to start. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnia1911 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 8.2.3 is one of the reasons you need a default position like 8.2.2Without it, the whole COF could get tossed! It would be great if all "stage designers and match official" got it perfect every time. But, I don't live in that world. Having a "default" is good CYA. It hurts nothing. 8.2.3 is one of the reasons you need a default position like 8.2.2 I don't understand your point. Why does 8.2.3 require 8.2.2? Without it, the whole COF could get tossed!It would be great if all "stage designers and match official" got it perfect every time. But, I don't live in that world. The solution is to have our well trained RMs make sure the match doesn't start until the start position is properly written accordingly to the stage designers intent. It is no different than making sure that the stage design and course description are done correctly and safely. When they aren't, we don't go to default mode. We make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnia1911 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 FWIW, the materials used to make the "start box" or fault line are not considered "neutral zone". They are an extension of what could be called "fair ground" for the competitor. Touching the ground outside of the fault line is a procedural violation of the start position or a procedural penalty if firing a shot. Standing on the fault lines is not a violation and is a legal start position. If for some reason the stage briefing says you may not start on the fault lines, then you must start completely inside the box, or behind the fault line, not on top or over it. However, this must be written in the stage briefing. It should not be ad libbed by the CRO. This is why it's important to have a clearly written but complete stage briefing, one which includes where you must be in order to start. Troy "Fair ground" is a much better description of the point I was trying to make. Thanks Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 FWIW, the materials used to make the "start box" or fault line are not considered "neutral zone". They are an extension of what could be called "fair ground" for the competitor. Touching the ground outside of the fault line is a procedural violation of the start position or a procedural penalty if firing a shot. Standing on the fault lines is not a violation and is a legal start position. If for some reason the stage briefing says you may not start on the fault lines, then you must start completely inside the box, or behind the fault line, not on top or over it. However, this must be written in the stage briefing. It should not be ad libbed by the CRO. This is why it's important to have a clearly written but complete stage briefing, one which includes where you must be in order to start. Troy Thanks, Tigger. That's the sort of answer I was hoping for. When I first realized I had been telling people they could not start with one foot up on the side of the box and then also considered how contradictory that is to our freestyle philosophy, I almost slapped myself (please, no volunteers). Lots of good replies here. BE folks are the best. ...Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKooi Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Thank you Troy. That is the way I understood it, I appreciate your confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 In the box out of the box In the box out of the box In the box out of the box ETC....... Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now