M&P 9 fullsize getting light strikes 80% no joke

[Ken_Bird]

The primer hits dont appear random. It looks like they are consistently hiting off center in the same spot, if you clocked the primer strikes all to 12 o'clock they might line up. Ill check when I get home but im pretty sure my M&P doesnt hit exactly centered.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but if you get frustrated enough to try opening the shepards hook, check post#3 on this thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=182297

The idea that the aftemarket finish could be causing issues is something ive seen before also. Could be it.

I have a T.I.N. coating on my barrells. I had a very small tolerance problem and was in lockup and the barrel going through the slide. Fixed that an all is well.

Here is a photo of mine.

[datsthat]

The primer hits dont appear random. It looks like they are consistently hiting off center in the same spot, if you clocked the primer strikes all to 12 o'clock they might line up. Ill check when I get home but im pretty sure my M&P doesnt hit exactly centered.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but if you get frustrated enough to try opening the shepards hook, check post#3 on this thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=182297

The idea that the aftemarket finish could be causing issues is something ive seen before also. Could be it.

Since removing the striker block didn't solve light strikes, would it make any difference if I open/close the shepard hook?

[Therealkoop]

The primer hits dont appear random. It looks like they are consistently hiting off center in the same spot, if you clocked the primer strikes all to 12 o'clock they might line up. Ill check when I get home but im pretty sure my M&P doesnt hit exactly centered.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but if you get frustrated enough to try opening the shepards hook, check post#3 on this thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=182297

The idea that the aftemarket finish could be causing issues is something ive seen before also. Could be it.

Since removing the striker block didn't solve light strikes, would it make any difference if I open/close the shepard hook?

My first thought was the FSS/USB, but since you took it out I have no idea. Its just one more thing to try when you have exhausted other options.

[Duane Thomas]

Hey, Dat, got your email directing me to this thread.

Let me begin by saying that I am not the world’s biggest Smith & Wesson M&P fan. I place a lot of weight, relative to how much regard I have for a particular gun design, on how I’ve seen it perform at matches, and also the feedback from police departments that issue it. I have rarely if ever seen an M&P complete a match without some sort of functional problem, and feedback from police departments has not been great. So to start with, you’re running a gun that doesn’t have a great reputation/track record for reliability, even in totally stock form.

Other than that, let’s take your issues in some sort of order. One thing I had a good pistolsmith tell me years ago, that has always stuck with me, was, “Whenever a gun malfunctions, people always blame the gun, they never blame the ammunition. But the fact is, the vast majority of gun malfunctions are caused by the ammo.” All of the ammo types you listed have notably hard primers. The S&B, Blazer (i.e. CCI) and Mag-Tech all feature notoriously hard primers. The Rems are the best of the lot, but still not what I’d choose to run in a striker fired gun with a tuned action. Failures to fire with all the ammo you’ve mentioned, in a gun with a tuned action (i.e. lighter than normal firing pin strikes) are not just predictable but unavoidable.

If you’re going to be running a match gun with a tuned trigger/firing pin system, you need to be running Federal primers. Period.

As to your failures to go into battery/failures to extract, my immediate reaction is that you have just way too many things going on at once to be able to isolate your problem.

I have not, personally, been pleased with the performance of aftermarket match barrels in my striker fired autos (granted the autos in which I’ve tested the concept have been Glocks, not M&Ps). The smoothness with which the guns cycle, and feed, the consistency and repeatability with which they go into battery, simply can’t compare to the factory unit.

Factory recoil spring weight on a full-sized M&P is 16 pounds. If everything inside the gun is as it should be, I see no reason you shouldn’t be able to run a 13 pound spring. I have had slides IonBonded in the past myself, and it’s never had a negative effect (granted my IonBonded guns have all been 1911s). IonBond is actually a very thin surface treatment and shouldn’t cause any tolerance issues. Yes, you have had your slide lightened, but once you add on the red dot, the overall weight of the slide is probably pretty darn close to factory standard.

My advice is:

(1) Switch to Federal primers.

(2) Install, as much as possible, all factory parts. Install a factory barrel. Switch out the aftermarket recoil spring assembly for a factory guide rod/spring. Install a factory extractor spring. Install a factory fire control/firing pin/firing pin spring system.

If you’re going to continue running the factory fire control/firing pin/firing pin spring system, technically you probably don’t need to be running Federal primers, but I proceed on the assumption you will not be able to contain yourself from eventually playing around with your light trigger system, so you might as well remove the ammunition as a potential cause of ignition failures right off the bat.

Once you have switched to ammo that will predictably work in a gun with a tuned action, and have, as much as possible, set up the gun as a factory piece, fire the gun. How does it work? Probably much better. Then, if you really, really, want to be running a gun with an extra-long match barrel, an aftermarket light trigger, etc., you can try adding that stuff one thing at a time, testing to see if it causes problems. The first thing I would experiment with, myself, would be the 13-pound recoil spring, since that actually does make a difference in how the gun acts in recoil, and can make it easier to shoot fast and well. Honestly, I would stay away from the aftermarket match barrel and the aftermarket light trigger kit.

So, in (as close to possible) factory stock form, the gun works acceptably well. Switch to the 13-pound recoil spring. Does the gun continue to work well? Yes? Leave it in. No? Put the gun back the way it was when it worked, i.e. reinstall the factory recoil spring. Lo and behold, the gun starts working again. Stick in the aftermarket barrel. (I wouldn’t, but it’s your gun, not mine.) Does the gun continue working well? No? Reinstall the factory barrel. And so forth.

Personally, regarding aftermarket light trigger systems, I have to say I have gotten away from wanting really light trigger pulls in my match guns. Now, that has a lot to do with the fact that I have always been very serious about competing with my carry gun. Currently my Glock 17 is running a factory stock “minus” connector, factory firing pin, factory firing pin spring, and Glockmeister 349 trigger return spring, with all the relevant contact surfaces hand polished. Trigger pulls run 4-1/4 pounds. By competition shooter standards those are heavy trigger pulls, but y’know, they don’t really seem to be holding me back. And the gun predictably goes bang every time I pull the trigger.

[barneyb]

Hey, Dat, got your email directing me to this thread.

Let me begin by saying that I am not the world’s biggest Smith & Wesson M&P fan. I place a lot of weight, relative to how much regard I have for a particular gun design, on how I’ve seen it perform at matches, and also the feedback from police departments that issue it. I have rarely if ever seen an M&P complete a match without some sort of functional problem, and feedback from police departments has not been great. So to start with, you’re running a gun that doesn’t have a great reputation/track record for reliability, even in totally stock form.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have been running a 5" 40 with FSS trigger and competion spring set (2 1/2 lbs.) with a KKM barrel for 2+ years. NO malfunctions! 0!. And, although Fed primers are what I'd like to use, that's not always possible. I've used a variety of small pisol and small rifle with 0 problems.

[datsthat]

Thanks Duane for replying. I greatly appreciate it.

Which factory ammo uses federal primer? I don't reload yet.

[Sarge]

Hey, Dat, got your email directing me to this thread.

Let me begin by saying that I am not the world’s biggest Smith & Wesson M&P fan. I place a lot of weight, relative to how much regard I have for a particular gun design, on how I’ve seen it perform at matches, and also the feedback from police departments that issue it. I have rarely if ever seen an M&P complete a match without some sort of functional problem, and feedback from police departments has not been great. So to start with, you’re running a gun that doesn’t have a great reputation/track record for reliability, even in totally stock form.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have been running a 5" 40 with FSS trigger and competion spring set (2 1/2 lbs.) with a KKM barrel for 2+ years. NO malfunctions! 0!. And, although Fed primers are what I'd like to use, that's not always possible. I've used a variety of small pisol and small rifle with 0 problems.

My experience mirrors Duane's. I tried an M&P in Production and it was a nightmare. Maybe things have changed with the newer guns but they will never be a Glock. You have to really get crazy with a Glock to make it not work.

[Sarge]

Which factory ammo uses federal primer? I don't reload yet.

Federal

[datsthat]

Thanks sarge. I read about your light strike issuess....if i remember correctly, somebody offered to look at it for free....what was the outcome? How did you resolve it?

[Sarge]

I fooled with it for a season or so and sold it. Wish I had better info to share but I bought a G34 and ran it more or less tricked out with all kinds of aftermarket stuff for 2-3 seasons without ever a malf that wasn't my fault.

[datsthat]

Thanks sarge. I think I'll sell it if I can't get it fixed. However I don't think I'll get much more than couple hundred.

Anyways off to the range tomorrow to try my modified striker channel liner. Lightly and slowly filed a LITTLE bit off the side that goes in slide first hoping that it will allow the fire pin to SLIGHTLY reach further. I am talking about filing 1 stroke at a time to hopefully prevent penetration.

Edited December 13, 2013 by datsthat

[Sarge]

Thanks sarge. I think I'll sell it if I can't get it fixed. However I don't think I'll get much more than couple hundred.

Anyways off to the range tomorrow to try my modified striker channel liner.

If you keep messing with it I am sure you will eventually get it figured out. They take a good bit of tinkering but it has to be just the right kind of tinkering.

Keep at it.

[fdc1999]

I just installed the FSS kit in my 9Pro. I did not need to adjust the hook at all. However, for about the first 20 or so rounds I had about 5 or 6 light strikes. It was then fine for the next 100 rounds. When I pulled the slide, the striker block is still working fine. Is there anything I should keep a look out for in the future? How many of these FSS kits are out there? Are there hundreds with only a few outliers, or is this mostly a good kit once its running?

[Duane Thomas]

Thanks Duane for replying. I greatly appreciate it.

Which factory ammo uses federal primer? I don't reload yet.

As has already been said, Federal. For less expensive factory ammo, there is the Federal generic brand, American Eagle.

[datsthat]

I just installed the FSS kit in my 9Pro. I did not need to adjust the hook at all. However, for about the first 20 or so rounds I had about 5 or 6 light strikes. It was then fine for the next 100 rounds. When I pulled the slide, the striker block is still working fine. Is there anything I should keep a look out for in the future? How many of these FSS kits are out there? Are there hundreds with only a few outliers, or is this mostly a good kit once its running?

Only time will tell. Everybody's gun interacts with FSS Kit differently.

[Ken_Bird]

Hey, Dat, got your email directing me to this thread.

Let me begin by saying that I am not the world’s biggest Smith & Wesson M&P fan. I place a lot of weight, relative to how much regard I have for a particular gun design, on how I’ve seen it perform at matches, and also the feedback from police departments that issue it. I have rarely if ever seen an M&P complete a match without some sort of functional problem, and feedback from police departments has not been great. So to start with, you’re running a gun that doesn’t have a great reputation/track record for reliability, even in totally stock form.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have been running a 5" 40 with FSS trigger and competion spring set (2 1/2 lbs.) with a KKM barrel for 2+ years. NO malfunctions! 0!. And, although Fed primers are what I'd like to use, that's not always possible. I've used a variety of small pisol and small rifle with 0 problems.

My experience mirrors Duane's. I tried an M&P in Production and it was a nightmare. Maybe things have changed with the newer guns but they will never be a Glock. You have to really get crazy with a Glock to make it not work.

Ok, I have to also chime in here. I own and compete with four different M&P pistols. The are set up as Open guns because I am old and dont see that well. My carry gun is also an M&P. Now to be honest, these guns are the newer models. 2012/2013 One has a Salient Arms trigger in it and is what think the finest gun I have shot. I have " NEVER " had this gun fail to go bang. the others have the Apex trigger kits installed at Apex, I have also had zero trouble with these as well. I think we all can tell stories of failure, but being former LEO I have never carried a pistol that did not work on demand. But then that was my choice and I made sure it happened.

[datsthat]

Thanks Duane for replying. I greatly appreciate it.

Which factory ammo uses federal primer? I don't reload yet.

As has already been said, Federal. For less expensive factory ammo, there is the Federal generic brand, American Eagle.

I'll get a box of american eagle and try today. If modifying the striker channel liner doesn't work, then its back to stock it goes. Except, I will need to purchase a stock stiker block plunger as I lost mine.

[datsthat]

Wonderful News. I finally was able to fire all 17 rounds without any issues with the combination of Federal Ammo and modified the striker channel liner. I was still getting light strikes using Blaser with the modified striker channel liner, but it was GREATLY reduced (couple out of 17rds).

(1 box of 50rds of Federal Target Ammo (white box) costed me $19.77 (including tax) at the range (notorious for ripping people off) that I have a membership at. (I am stuck there b/c I purcahsesd a lifetime membership way back in the early 90s))

Thank you again to all who helped me troubleshoot.

Now I need to start re-loading.

[Therealkoop]

Awesome glad you got it running, thanks for the followup.

Hey, Dat, got your email directing me to this thread.

Let me begin by saying that I am not the world’s biggest Smith & Wesson M&P fan. I place a lot of weight, relative to how much regard I have for a particular gun design, on how I’ve seen it perform at matches, and also the feedback from police departments that issue it. I have rarely if ever seen an M&P complete a match without some sort of functional problem, and feedback from police departments has not been great. So to start with, you’re running a gun that doesn’t have a great reputation/track record for reliability, even in totally stock form.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have been running a 5" 40 with FSS trigger and competion spring set (2 1/2 lbs.) with a KKM barrel for 2+ years. NO malfunctions! 0!. And, although Fed primers are what I'd like to use, that's not always possible. I've used a variety of small pisol and small rifle with 0 problems.

My experience mirrors Duane's. I tried an M&P in Production and it was a nightmare. Maybe things have changed with the newer guns but they will never be a Glock. You have to really get crazy with a Glock to make it not work.

Ok, I have to also chime in here. I own and compete with four different M&P pistols. The are set up as Open guns because I am old and dont see that well. My carry gun is also an M&P. Now to be honest, these guns are the newer models. 2012/2013 One has a Salient Arms trigger in it and is what think the finest gun I have shot. I have " NEVER " had this gun fail to go bang. the others have the Apex trigger kits installed at Apex, I have also had zero trouble with these as well. I think we all can tell stories of failure, but being former LEO I have never carried a pistol that did not work on demand. But then that was my choice and I made sure it happened.

I never had an issue with any of my M&P's as well, until I installed the FSS that is. Swapped barrels and put in APEX parts without issue. Ive admittedly seen 2 M&P's malfunction, both times were multiple failures to extract which were resolved by replacing the extractor spring. My 9L has a large amount of ammo through it however and still is using the factory extractor spring. Ive had 2 malfunctions in maybe 10k rounds, both were light strikes. Ive honestly seen more glocks malfunction, but they were almost all surely ammunition/reloading problems.

[Bluemooncricket]

All four of my M&P's have been rock solid. Also, FWIW, I've never seen an M&P choke at any match I've attended in the past year and a half. I have the utmost faith in my pistols and carry my 9c every day.

[fdc1999]

I pulled my firing pin (I didnt know how easy it was to remove), and there are no signs at all of peening or anything rubbing. I think I just did too many changes at once and everythong needed to settle. It was the FSS, lighter slide spring, and slide was just ceracoated.

[datsthat]

I pulled my firing pin (I didnt know how easy it was to remove), and there are no signs at all of peening or anything rubbing. I think I just did too many changes at once and everythong needed to settle. It was the FSS, lighter slide spring, and slide was just ceracoated.

How often are you getting light strikes? Try federal ammo. I wish I tried it sooner. That's all I will shoot going forward.

Fyi with federal, I had to no problem using 11# recoil spring & reduce powered striker spring

Edited December 14, 2013 by datsthat

[fdc1999]

I pulled my firing pin (I didnt know how easy it was to remove), and there are no signs at all of peening or anything rubbing. I think I just did too many changes at once and everythong needed to settle. It was the FSS, lighter slide spring, and slide was just ceracoated.

How often are you getting light strikes? Try federal ammo. I wish I tried it sooner. That's all I will shoot going forward.

Fyi with federal, I had to no problem using 11# recoil spring & reduce powered striker spring

I have been running Aguila mostly because the cost is lower, i will try Federal next, thanks!

[Ken_Bird]

Hey, Dat, got your email directing me to this thread.

Let me begin by saying that I am not the world’s biggest Smith & Wesson M&P fan. I place a lot of weight, relative to how much regard I have for a particular gun design, on how I’ve seen it perform at matches, and also the feedback from police departments that issue it. I have rarely if ever seen an M&P complete a match without some sort of functional problem, and feedback from police departments has not been great. So to start with, you’re running a gun that doesn’t have a great reputation/track record for reliability, even in totally stock form.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have been running a 5" 40 with FSS trigger and competion spring set (2 1/2 lbs.) with a KKM barrel for 2+ years. NO malfunctions! 0!. And, although Fed primers are what I'd like to use, that's not always possible. I've used a variety of small pistol and small rifle with 0 problems.

I also agree here. I shoot a M&P Pro Core, its got a KKM barrel, and a Salient International 2 1/2 trigger that is almost just like my 1911. It has shot over 4,000 rounds and only did not go bang one time. My fault, primer loaded upside down. Just hate that. And each and every round was loaded with Winchester SPP. We use what works.

[thermobollocks]

I don't find modifying the striker spring beneficial. As is, all of mine eat Tula, S&B, CCI, Win, and Federal without complaint. I've never seen one break in person before.