Fuzzy front sight

[Onepocket]

Any great shooters ever make GM not seeing the front sight?

[BeerBaron]

I doubt it. some guys seem to shoot 'ok' with a strong target focus and a fuzzy front sight, but my guess is generally they are older shooters. they used to see the front sight clearly and have developed excellent muscle memory so gun is in the same place every time. so now that their eyesight has changed and they have more target focus it doesn't matter to them so much. but they would have had probably 20 years shooting with a clear front sight to develop to that point. and they probably aren't going to get to M or GM with things that way.

seeing the front sight really clearly is a pretty important part of shooting well. I'd say sight picture and trigger control are the 2 biggest things for someone who is learning their way in practical shooting. grip, stance, target etc is all important too. but without a clear sight picture it's all for nothing. same goes for trigger control. you can do everything else perfect but if you jerk the trigger it all amounts to naught.

[benos]

Are you asking because of a vision problem (you can't focus clearly on the front sight)?

[Onepocket]

Yes I am left eye dominate and right handed. I have been shooting steel challenge for a few years and just started shooting USPSA. Why is it so important to see the front sight clear. Will it limit my progress? I see it clearl if I close one eye. Locally I win all of the steel challenges shooting against A, M. USPSA I have been finishing top 10 shooting limited minor. Should I start closing one eye?

[Whoops!]

Any great shooters ever make GM not seeing the front sight?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no. If they made GM without seeing the front sight, they were not great shooters and did it on hoser stages.

Yes I am left eye dominate and right handed. I have been shooting steel challenge for a few years and just started shooting USPSA. Why is it so important to see the front sight clear. Will it limit my progress? I see it clearl if I close one eye. Locally I win all of the steel challenges shooting against A, M. USPSA I have been finishing top 10 shooting limited minor. Should I start closing one eye?

Use tape or chapstick over one side of your shooting glasses. It should cover the front sight for that one eye when the other eye is closed, but leave your peripheral open. This will allow you to keep both eyes open, but see your sight as if you're looking at it with one eye closed. This method can be used very effectively and without apparent handicap.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Whoops!

[Jshuberg]

How does being cross dominant effect your ability to clearly see the sights? Just line up with your dominant eye, and your mind will figure out how to drop the "other" sight from your consciousness.

[justpaul]

Dave Sevigny is cross eye dominant and so are thousands of other great shooters

[mickd1]

i think its time to come over to the dark side and shoot open

[Onepocket]

Dave Sevigny is cross eye dominant and so are thousands of other great shooters

Does he close one eye? Or just shoot fuzzy front sights.

No one has explained to me why seeing a front sight clear is so important. Seeing a clear target and a fuzzy sight I can shoot tight groups.

[benos]

I took this out of a PM, on "calling the shot."

Here's what it comes down to. You need to KNOW, for every shot you fire, whether or not the bulllet will hit the target, before it gets there.

However you know that information - what you see or don't see - doesn't matter. As long as you know it.

be

[Jshuberg]

No one has explained to me why seeing a front sight clear is so important. Seeing a clear target and a fuzzy sight I can shoot tight groups.

Where you want to focus is on the front sight. You want it to be absolutely crisp and clear. If the front sight is out of focus, it will not have a well defined edge, and it will be more difficult to determine its exact position, and exactly where the front sight was relative to the rear at the moment the shot breaks.

In order to shoot accurately, you need to have both proper sight picture and sight alignment. Sight picture is more important up close, and sight alignment is more important at distance, but both are necessary for maximum accuracy.

Whether you focus on the target or the front sight doesn't really matter that much concerning sight picture. However, if you're focused on the target your ability to observe and maintain proper sight alignment is extremely compromised. This is because the edges of the sights are blurry, and without a distinct edge it's prohibitively difficult. In order to maximize your ability to observe and maintain both a proper sight alignment and sight picture, you need to be focused on the front sight, as crisply and clearly as possible. That being said, if you're shooting targets up close, where sight alignment isn't as important as sight picture, it's possible to have a target focus or soft sight focus and still shoot 'well' as far as group size goes. However, your ability to call your shots will be negatively effected by this to some extent.

The bullets going where you want them to isn't the goal of training. The goal of training is to develop and maintain proper technique. The bullets going where you want is the *result* of proper technique. If you train simply to put the bullets where you want them, rather than on developing proper technique, you'll be taking shortcuts that will end up holding you back in the long run. Focus on technique, and the bullets will go where you want them to. Everything you need to focus on or pay attention to is in your hands, not at the target.

I'm still not understanding how being cross dominant and shooting both eyes open is causing you to not be able to focus on your front sight. Is the 2nd image too distracting for you, or are you actually unable to focus on the front sight with both eyes open?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Jshuberg

[BeerBaron]

I had the same problem. Left eye dominant, right handed. in fact when I started shooting I couldn't close my left eye without my right eye closing too. So I tried shooting right handed with my left eye, but as I was also shooting some olympic/ISSF type stuff which is SHO that didn't work so well.

So I put a small target patch on my left eye glass. I closed my right eye and positioned the sticker so with my right eye closed the left eye could not see the sights. Now I could shoot both eyes open and over time my right eye strengthened to the point I can now close my left eye without my right eye closing (it does still squint a little).

It sounds like you are doing ok as is, but steel challenege is not very long distance. I'm guessing longest distance is 15 yards? in some USPSA matches I'm guessing you might get targets out to 25 yards. in IPSC here we occasionally get targets at even 50 yards. or mini targets at 25 etc. at those distances seeing the front sight clearly so you can get good sight alignment is pretty important.

[Dwight Stearns]

There are top level GM shooters that use a hard target focus. Eric Grauffel for one. Matt Cheely for another. I would also wager there are a number that do but won't admit it. Target focus does work but seems to need some form of front sight enhancement such as fiber optics or dots. Black sights do seem to fuzz out, making it difficult to define the edges. Target focus is just as fast as front sight focus and lends itself to shot calling as well as front sight focus. Is target focus superior? No. But not necessarily inferior either. Unlike bulls-eye, few shots in USPSA or steel shooting require a perfect sight picture. Sight picture along with trigger manipulation just need to be good enough.

Onepocket, the number of steel matches you have won indicates you are already doing something right. Stay with what you know and go with it.

Dwight

[Onepocket]

Thanks for everyone's input on my crazy eye problem, I have tried for years to fix it. I think I might just see how far I can take the whole point shooting thing or borrow some of my girlfriends scotch tape. Thanks again.

[Dwight Stearns]

I'd like to clarify, target focus is not point shooting. The top shooters that use target focus see the sight picture and call the shot. It's just that the sights are fuzzy and the target is clear.

Have fun. Shoot safe.

Dwight

[BeerBaron]

I remember reading a post by Eric G and he mentioned he does like target focus (and no doubt why he often uses at set of sights that have a fibre optic rod in the front and 2 in the rear making it a fairly bright 3 dot sight). He did say though that for shots over 15 yards he switches to just one eye open which for me means more or a sight focus (as with only one eye open looking through the sights target is mostly obscured). if Interested the post is on the IPSC global village in the Eric G section.

Dwight has good advice and I tend to agree if what you're doing works there is no reason to change it just for theory. but it wouldn't hurt you to try some techniques and you may improve.... and I still think all top shooters have a clear sight alignment for anything longer than about 7 yards. but as I mentioned over the years they get really good muscle memory so where they point the gun they know where the POI is, hence they can use target focus more successfully than a newer shooter.

[Supermoto]

I'd like to clarify, target focus is not point shooting. The top shooters that use target focus see the sight picture and call the shot. It's just that the sights are fuzzy and the target is clear.

Have fun. Shoot safe.

Dwight

Exactly, just because you are focused on the target, that doesn't mean that you not seeing your sight. For me, it is easier for me to call my shot when I can see exactly where my fuzzy front site is on a crisp target then it is to see where a crisp front sight is on a fuzzy target. If it is a really hard shot, small target at distance. I will lose the target if I focus on the front sight. Makes it difficult to make hits when you can't find the target

I do find it easier to shoot this way when I have a good amount of light on either side of my front sight.

[Onepocket]

Dwight I was just kidding when I said point shoot everything. I put a small amount of tape on my glasses last night and saw the front sight clear as a bell but I'm not sure if it would be worth it. I feel as if I would loose all if my depth perception. I wonder how well Taran Butler would do in a USPSA match if you took the sights of his gun.

[Whoops!]

I guess my question would be, why do we need depth perception? We're not shooting handguns at targets far enough for bullet drop to make a difference.

[Dwight Stearns]

Dwight I was just kidding when I said point shoot everything. I put a small amount of tape on my glasses last night and saw the front sight clear as a bell but I'm not sure if it would be worth it. I feel as if I would loose all if my depth perception. I wonder how well Taran Butler would do in a USPSA match if you took the sights of his gun.

oops Onepocket. Ya gotta nudge me right before you start kidding. Otherwise it goes right bye me.

I've had people insist I was point shooting if I was not focused on the front sight.

Shoot safe

Dwight

[Onepocket]

Whoops maybe your right maybe we don't need depth perception??? I'm not 100% sure about any this.

[Whoops!]

None of us are, lol.

[bountyhunter]

I'd like to clarify, target focus is not point shooting. The top shooters that use target focus see the sight picture and call the shot. It's just that the sights are fuzzy and the target is clear.

Have fun. Shoot safe.

Dwight

Exactly, just because you are focused on the target, that doesn't mean that you not seeing your sight. For me, it is easier for me to call my shot when I can see exactly where my fuzzy front site is on a crisp target then it is to see where a crisp front sight is on a fuzzy target. I will lose the target if I focus on the front sight. Makes it difficult to make hits when you can't find the target

same here.

[Jshuberg]

It doesn't really matter if you have a front sight or target focus concerning sight picture. To ensure proper sight alignment though, you need to be focused on the front sight. It simply isn't possible to determine how well aligned the front sight is relative to the rear when both sights are fuzzy.

When shooting targets up close, sight picture dominates. You can have a moderate misalignment of the sights and it won't throw you off that much. However, as distance increases, sight alignment becomes more important and surpasses sight picture in importance. It's at this distance and beyond where a front sight focus is essential. The exact distance is going to differ between shooters, but generally is around 15-20 yards.

Some people have developed procedural memory and proprioception to the point where it might not be necessary to have a hard front sight focus to hit their target properly at these distances, but the problem is that if they do miss they won't know it, because they cannot call their shot properly because their front sight isn't clear enough to notice the misalignment.

Its not simply about hitting the target, as there are undoubtedly people who have developed the skill to hit a target at distance using a target focus. Being able to hit the target isn't enough though, it's just as much about knowing you hit the target properly without having to waist time looking for holes. Unless the front sight is clear enough and distinct enough to be able to instantly identify if it's misaligned, your feedback loop is broken. This requires a front sight focus and an increasing level of concentration and hardness of that focus as distance to the target increases.

[Supermoto]

It doesn't really matter if you have a front sight or target focus concerning sight picture. To ensure proper sight alignment though, you need to be focused on the front sight. It simply isn't possible to determine how well aligned the front sight is relative to the rear when both sights are fuzzy.

When shooting targets up close, sight picture dominates. You can have a moderate misalignment of the sights and it won't throw you off that much. However, as distance increases, sight alignment becomes more important and surpasses sight picture in importance. It's at this distance and beyond where a front sight focus is essential. The exact distance is going to differ between shooters, but generally is around 15-20 yards.

Some people have developed procedural memory and proprioception to the point where it might not be necessary to have a hard front sight focus to hit their target properly at these distances, but the problem is that if they do miss they won't know it, because they cannot call their shot properly because their front sight isn't clear enough to notice the misalignment.

Its not simply about hitting the target, as there are undoubtedly people who have developed the skill to hit a target at distance using a target focus. Being able to hit the target isn't enough though, it's just as much about knowing you hit the target properly without having to waist time looking for holes. Unless the front sight is clear enough and distinct enough to be able to instantly identify if it's misaligned, your feedback loop is broken. This requires a front sight focus and an increasing level of concentration and hardness of that focus as distance to the target increases.

I don't need to focus on my front sight to call my shots at any distance