What is .38 "Mid" Colt?

[ParaLarry]

I ran across this thread earlier and I want to make sure I understand what you guys are doing:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=181024

Are you all shooting different length cases in .38/.357 revolvers?

Just for the sake of easier reloads with shorter cases?

Thanks

[Brian Gonsalves]

Yep!

I should add, I use Short Colts but some worry about the pressure with heavy bullets. The "Mid Colts" have the benefit of the quicker loading/unloading but allow a little safety cushion.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Brian Gonsalves

[RevolverJockey]

Yes. .38 SC and .900" "mid" are two popular variations.

Lee

[Tom E]

The .900" mid length is the longest case the extractor (star) will push clear of the chamber.

[ParaLarry]

The .900" mid length is the longest case the extractor (star) will push clear of the chamber.

? But my Model 10 .38 specials are about 1.15 and they usually extract, so shorter could be faster?

And Long Colts are 1.03?

Mid Colts are .900?

Short Colts are .765?

I saw them all mentioned in the older thread.

I DO see the advantage of something slightly shorter for faster extraction and hopefully easier reloading (I just started in Classic and the majority of my time on a stage is spent fiddling with the Comp IIIs).

So anything shorter than .38 Special (1.15) could work?

[steel1212]

What he is saying is at .900 the case is fully outside of the cylinder at full extraction stroke.

[ParaLarry]

Doh.

Epiphany.

Okay just got back from my bench and I see empty .38 cases barely clearing the end of the cylinder, so if Long Colt is better at .15 shorter why is Mid colt at .25 shorter more preferable? Is there something magical about .900?

By the way I noticed my store bought dummy rounds are only 1.40 overall and my factory Federal 158 grain RN loads are 1.55 overall; I couldn't figure out why, with all the reloading practice I did with the dummies, the Federals were still hard to load smoothly.

That also explains why when I once ran low at a local match with the Federals I used some Georgia Arms 158 gr RN Flat Points that seemed to load like butter; they were substantially shorter than the Federals at 1.41.

Thanks

[steel1212]

Short colt is the easiest to reload to and fall out. The shorter the case the less wobble there will be going in and the quicker it will all come out. People are going to mid length cases so as to not see any pressure signs that have come up with the short colts.

[ParaLarry]

Short colt is the easiest to reload to and fall out. The shorter the case the less wobble there will be going in and the quicker it will all come out. People are going to mid length cases so as to not see any pressure signs that have come up with the short colts.

Pressure signs in minor loads?

Thanks for the explanations, I am looking forward to trying these tricks in my Model 10 for Classic Division.

Is there anything I should watch out for in loading 158 gr RN with Trail Boss in shortened cases?

Should I try Long Colt (1.0) length first before cutting down to Mid (.900)?

[Tom E]

Short colt is the easiest to reload to and fall out. The shorter the case the less wobble there will be going in and the quicker it will all come out. People are going to mid length cases so as to not see any pressure signs that have come up with the short colts.

Pressure signs in minor loads?

Yes, by reducing the case volume you create a higher pressure cartidge to get the same velocity. I went with .900 to get minor velocities at lower pressures (than the short colt) while being able to get the rds positively ejected.

You got me wondering so I checked guns:

My 627s will push out a moonclipped .970 case. Figure .945 with loose rds.

2 1/2" 66-5 (short rod) will push the .900 case out, barely, only because of the chamber chamfer.

3" 10-8 (long rod) will push out a full length 38 special.

6" 14-7 will push out a 1.010 case.

6" 686-5 will push out a 1.010 case.

Go figure.

[steel1212]

Tom are you cutting your own I guess?

[Tom E]

Tom are you cutting your own I guess?

Yes, I have the Forster set-up that goes in a drill press.

[ParaLarry]

I have an old Gracey case trimmer for 13+ years of trimming .223; will that work if I get a .38 caseholder?

Or is .25 removal with a case trimmer too much at once?

[RevolverJockey]

If you search the revolver forum, you will find many ways people have found to do this task. If I was technically inclined I would post a link. I built a chop saw that can do about 20 cases a minute. If you want to send me a few hundred cases I can chop them off for you and the just need to be squared up and deburred. PM me if you are interested.

Lee

Edited November 27, 2013 by RevolverJockey

[Gregg K]

Is there anything I should watch out for in loading 158 gr RN with Trail Boss in shortened cases?

Should I try Long Colt (1.0) length first before cutting down to Mid (.900)?

You are going to have to figure out how short you can go with your Comp III's and still be able to get the bullets started into the cylinder before the Comp III fires. Loading a long pointy bullet will allow you to use a shorter case than short bullet. You can always look to modify your Comp III's to work with a shorter case, you will have to figure out how much work you want to do to use what you want. You should be OK at .900 but you will want to check before going much shorter with the Comp III's. I haven't played with the Comp III's in a while so I'm not sure how short you can go plus the bullet you are loading is another factor.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Gregg K

[Tom E]

You can always look to modify your Comp III's to work with a shorter case, you will have to figure out how much work you want to do to use what you want. You should be OK at .900 but you will want to check before going much shorter with the Comp III's. I haven't played with the Comp III's in a while so I'm not sure how short you can go plus the bullet you are loading is another factor.

Good point. I ran into this. I have Jetloaders with the bodies shortened and also needed to trim (shorten) the loaders center pi to get rds (.900 cases, 1.200 oal) adequately started in the chambers. As much BS as the short brass is to make I just load it in moonclips. I don't think I could shoot a lost brass match with it in speedloaders.

Actually, with Hearthco moonclips full length 38 specials with RN or PointyN bullets work well enough at my level of incompetence.

[S&W627shooter]

Another advantage of using a slightly longer case than Short Colt is that it enables you to seat a heavier bullet like the 170 grain Billy Bullets all the way to the shoulder without having too much pressure. Some have said that they use the 158 grain bullets with short colt, but in my limited experiment, the 170s were too long for a short colt case. Either you seat them deep enough for fast reloads and have really high pressures or you increase the OAL and have a longer distance before they clear the cylinder.