ANeat Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Hello everyone; I just got the results back from a recent blood test. I happen to mention to the Doc that he might want to check the lead level since I shoot alot. Of course its a little high so now I have to consider some options with what I shoot. I shoot a lot of Bullseye, where all I use is lead bullets and I will probably try to go with something plated or fmj from now on. I had even planned on shooting on a winter Bullseye league (indoors) and I will probably pass on that. Indoor shooting is a good way to really get the lead level up. Ive been using fmj bullets in my USPSA loads but they do have the exposed lead on the base. I guess a plated bullet or something fully enclosed wouldnt be a bad idea. Im one of those guys that always wash after reloading or shooting and even carry those hand cleaning wipes in my shooting bag to use. If you havent had yours checked its probably not a bad Idea. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Funny this was posted today. I had to work with some lead- lined sheet rock. My hands were nice and gray when I was done. I had to go wash them off quickly when I relized what it was. No, I haven't had mine checked. I started shootng jacketed bullets and shoot only outside. TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a safe indoor shooting range (as long as there is lead in the primers and the clueless operators think exposed base FMJ's are the same animal as encapsulated base slugs.) Too many careful people are having problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I had mine checked last January, My doc said mine was a level of "20". He said that when it gets above a "70" Then I will be in trouble. He informed me that the worst thing is casting lead bullets, which I used to do. Over the last 22 years I have shot IPSC among other sports, loaded shot shells and worked in a In door range. I will have it checked at least once a year from now on! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I'm a electrician at a copper smelter in NM, and we have to get a the full blood work, hearing test, physical. Never have a problem with lead in the last 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANeat Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 I had mine checked last January, My doc said mine was a level of "20". He said that when it gets above a "70" Then I will be in trouble. He informed me that the worst thing is casting lead bullets, which I used to do. Over the last 22 years I have shot IPSC among other sports, loaded shot shells and worked in a In door range. I will have it checked at least once a year from now on! Ivan Ivan you might want to get another doctor My Doc didnt want to see anything over 9. My level was 12 and he called me to tell me I probably need to change some of the things Im doing. He mentioned that if it was 20 I may want to stop any exposure for a while to get it back down. Here is a little snip of an article I found on lead exposure. "The first detrimental effects of lead are seen as an increase in blood pressure, starting at a blood lead level of about 7 mcg/dl. Blood pressure continues to rise as the lead level increases, indicating that lead is slightly toxic at almost any level. And even though serious problems do not usually arise until the lead reaches a higher level, establishing the "toxic" level of lead is obviously an arbitrary exercise. The first level OSHA considered "elevated" in adults and used by most medical labs is 40 mcg/dl. At this level, most people will show hematologic (blood chemistry) changes, and adults will exhibit low level symptoms. OSHA requires continuous medical monitoring of employees who have tested at this level. The level of 60 mcg/dl is considered to be nominal lead poisoning, and OSHA requires removal from the source of exposure. At this level, almost everyone will exhibit symptoms of lead poisoning, while some will exhibit severe symptoms. At a level of about 75 mcg/dl, or if symptoms are severe, many physicians will want to intervene with a procedure called "chelation therapy". This involves intravenously infusing the chemical EDTA, or orally administering D-penicillamine, both of which bind to lead in the blood stream and allow it to be quickly excreted. Because these procedures are expensive, time consuming, and can have their own dangerous side effects, they are usually reserved for very serious problems." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Aneat, Thanks, After reading your little snip, I will check with him again, He did say that it would go down after time, something that I had heard was not True. But I guess it is. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANeat Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Hi Ivan; Yes it will go down if you reduce your exposure. On the bullseyel forum there was a recent discussion on the subject that prompted me to see what mine was since I was in there for a physical already. Several guys on there had developed fairly high levels close to 40 and had them back down to less than 10 within 6 months or so. I dont know if everyone is like that but that is what they had happen. It seemed like the ones with the high levels were all shooting indoors Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 They say increasing your calcium, iron and Vit. C intake will help dispel lead in your system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 After having my level checked and finding it at 16 mcg/dl, my doctor told me to take 500mg of vit. C twice a day. That was 4-5 months ago. I haven't had it checked recently to see if it is down. The doctor did not act concerned at 16. He noted that more aggressive treatment would be required if the level exceeded about 20. just my experience dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 D.C. recently had a lead scare when it turned out the city knew about & failed to inform/correct high lead levels in the city water system. Lots of lead info followed. There seem to 2 levels mentioned as "minimum" levels for exposure: -some say that level is 10 mcg/dl & above; supposedly the only "treatment" that a doctor will suggest at low levels is: "remove source of lead from patient's environment". -some claim that 10 is actually the pediatric limit & the real exposure limit for adults is 24 mcg/dl & above. -I have heard that during the decades when leaded gasoline was used, the average for adults in and around unban areas was 22 mcg/dl, though I could not confirm it after an internet search. 2 years ago, I tested at a 12. 1 year ago, it was 13. I am careful about washing both hands & face after every shooting session & wearing left hand "finger cots" when reloading. I also use supplements including apple pectin & chellate form Calcium. I would also like to find an inexpensive source for the amino acid EDTA in capsules/tablets; another internet search only found high-dollar supplies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lndshrk Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I was also concerned and had checked at annual physical a couple of weeks ago. I shoot 2 - 3 three times a week at a fairly well ventilated indoor club and twice a month at outdoor matches. Between work and home, really no other place for lead contamination, and I don't reload. My blood level was 9. Was also told that above 10 was the first sign of problems and over 40 was OSHA notification time. Another shooter who reloads bigtime was at 24. My wife is pregnant, so I was particularly curious and am taking greater preventative measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANeat Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 I was also concerned and had checked at annual physical a couple of weeks ago. I shoot 2 - 3 three times a week at a fairly well ventilated indoor club and twice a month at outdoor matches. Between work and home, really no other place for lead contamination, and I don't reload. My blood level was 9. Was also told that above 10 was the first sign of problems and over 40 was OSHA notification time. Another shooter who reloads bigtime was at 24. My wife is pregnant, so I was particularly curious and am taking greater preventative measures. That is interesting Lndshrk; Do you shoot lead bullets?? Or bullets where the base is exposed lead?? Ive been going thru the way I do things and one thing I will be doing different is to begin wearing rubber gloves when cleaning my guns. I got some of the Nitrile gloves that are supposed to be solvent resistent to try out. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a safe indoor shooting range. I agree with that! My lead levels got high, so I quit shooting inside. I didn't change anything else and my lead levels dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Ditto. Both my wife and I tested with high levels so we stopped shooting indoors and we both now test in the noise. I have never loaded anything for either of us to shoot with any exposed lead at the base. We shoot westcoast plated for .40 and .45 and MG JHPs for 38supercomp. For about a year, though, we were shooting an inside league where the majority of folks were shooting factory FMJs or lead. I also use purple nitrile gloves when handloading and also when cleaning guns. Gloves are cheap and easy insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Hi Adam, I checked with my Doc last night he said my level was 12 not 20. And then asked when I was coming in to see him . Any way he said based on what I do for a living he was suprised it wasn't higher. He said he would like to see it under 10 if I was to continue shooting and handling bullets. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Take the lead level poll. [sounds of going to Harbor freight to buy a box of rubber gloves] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 EricW, I took the poll, I still shoot very limited indoors, Due to having to test fire some of our firearms, But as a rule I don't prctice indoors. I had a lot of exposure working in an indoor range. That is what prompted me to have the test done. Unfortunaley when I would bring the subject up to the people I worked with they would just laugh it off . Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 BD, I began to seriously question the safety of indoor shooting ranges when I was shooting GSSF indoor. Even with the extremely short amount of time we were in the range, when I came home, I would sneeze black mucous. Until lead free primers and covered-base bullets become available and mandatory, I just can't see myself shooting indoors anymore. We have a brand-new shooting range going in here. I asked the owner directly whether exposed-lead base bullets were going to be permitted. "Yup! But, by golly, we won't let anyone shoot bare lead." Which for the life of me - I can't figure out what the effective difference would be. Apparently, the new, granulated rubber bullet trap would fix all lead issues. Until the industry starts making policies that actually make sense, I just can't see taking the very real health risk that indoor shooting entails. There's no way in hell I'd ever let my child (if I had one) in an indoor shooting range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 EricW, You would be suprised on how many kids we would have in the range! Or maybe you wouldn't. Some parents just don't think about it. I'm not sure if they even care. It was hard enough to get the parents to keep the hearing protection on thier kids. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 EricW,You would be suprised on how many kids we would have in the range! Or maybe you wouldn't. Some parents just don't think about it. I'm not sure if they even care. It was hard enough to get the parents to keep the hearing protection on thier kids. Ivan Ivan, Honestly, I would believe it. 3 years ago, I wouldn't have thought twice about it, but reading about all the people here who have had issues AND have fixed the problem by simply eliminating indoor shooting has been a real wake-up call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastTens Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Just had my blood lead level checked. Question for the competitive shooters who shoot a lot. How many have their lead levels checked and how often. What is considered high and what do you do to lower it. What precautions do you take to prevent lead exposure? Here in Minnesota we are entering the winter shooting season with most competition going in doors and I would think lead exposure will go up. What can one do to limit the absorption of lead besides the obvious of washing your hands and wearing a mask? Any doctors out here that shed some light on this subject? My MD has little or no experience in lead exposure and sought council from a pediatrician for advice. At 16 they felt my lead level was elevated but not dangerously high at this time but I am afraid that it will go higher if I continue to shoot regularly indoors during the winter months. Thoughts anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANeat Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 Check here FT; http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastTens Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Thank-you for the pointer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishlad Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 I switched to copper plated bullets, latex gloves when cleaning the gun, reloading and tumbling the cases outdoors. I supect that cloud of media when you tumble is laden with lead. I also stopped shooting indoors, but that doesn't help you. Even if you did everything correctly indoors, what about the guy/girl next to you? But, people still shoot indoors so you could have your blood checked often to see what happens...I'm not a doctor so these are casual comments. That link provided has some questionable posts about levels that are okay. There is a lot of information on the internet about lead levels, i.e. state and federal agencies for example. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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