Jesse Tischauser Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I run the Benelli M2. It rarely if every has a round that won't fire or eject but it does happen. There is a reason it's the most popular shotgun in 3 gun and has been for awhile. The VM is intriguing but I will wait to buy one when every other guy on my squad has one too. Anybody that says they never have a jam with brand X shotgun is either full of shit or isn't shooting enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Anybody that says they never have a jam with brand X shotgun is either full of shit or isn't shooting enough. I think my case is the latter, I just took care of the former. Like my post said Benelli what the Big Dawg Daddy's shoot. My last really big 3-gun, I got to see Jesse in action with his Benelli, awesome run. This first myth buster was the barrel length, while you see a lot of short barreled guns in tactical, my guess is his was a 26-27" and had a 12 or 13 round tube. I have had a malfunction, most of them happen between my ears, but I learned a lesson using Wolf Slugs, they put a couple in the case that don't go bang, just to keep you on your toes, and then one or more that the brass splits on and it jams the gun up so that you have to slam it to the ground with atomic force to clear it out. These things will happen regardless of the "model" of gun you run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 In a match setting -- zero malfunctions is what's acceptable. Once I got the EZ Loader issue resolved on my 1100, it never malfunctioned during a match, but then I knew enough to clean and lube it beforehand.... It's all about figuring out in practice what your gun needs, and then doing it. Gun's clean and lubed, but hasn't been shot in a year -- you probably want to pay it some attention before the match this weekend.... Gun made it through 2 250 round practice sessions this week -- same thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecelt Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 The term acceptable really means what is reasonable to expect out of a well/properly maintained gun. Certain guns are more reliable by design and or the quality in which they are assembled. I think it stands to reason that the benelli has been top of the heap fr a while with the vm closing in. Some malfs will be ammo related but some guns will be more tolerant than others to different ammo. My intent of this thread was to also get a sense of how much more reliable is a stock and modified high end gun (m2 or vm)over a budget gun (like the mossy or cz) assuming proper maintenance. Which leads me to another question. How many rounds between a proper cleaning can these guns go? if you want to know acceptable malfunction count the answer is simply,............0. There are no acceptable malfunctions allowed in a SG. One is too many, but we need to maintain the guns acceptably or they will malfunction. If you want to know the reliability rate of a SG, then parameters need to be set, cleaned or uncleaned, oiled or un-oiled, etc. personally I would much rather have a dirty well oiled gun over a clean dry one. parts will wear and break faster leading to a malfunction on an un-oiled gun first, running substandard ammo will cause malfunctions, all these things are unknown when you ask this type of open question. Does anyone know if the malfunctions they are having are ammo related, user related, maintenance related, conditions related, accessory related or gun related??? there are many reasons for malfunctions, very few are related directly to the gun. Your most informed choice on a reliable new SASG, is easy to make you just have to look at what the top 15 shooters use at a major match in the division you wish to compete in, I guarantee they aren't using something unreliable. trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinT Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Which leads me to another question. How many rounds between a proper cleaning can these guns go? My AI M1 has somewhere from 0-2 per year, which is about 1000 rounds. None so far this year and I'm approaching 500 rounds without cleaning. The first VersaMax I got, I oiled the bolt, slide glide on the carrier and shot it. I took it to 2200 rounds before I tore it down and cleaned it. The number of malfunctions...ZERO. My SLP would go about 200rds of light target before it began to give me any trouble. Maybe 400 with standard 3dram loads. My versamax will go 1000 relaible, light target loads without a hiccup. No problem. I've never run it longer than that between cleanings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Rounds between cleanings will vary based on the gun and its ammo selection.... Smoothing and polishing the action will go a long way toward lengthening the interval.... Regular maintenance and lubrication will also help -- you may find that your gun doesn't need a massive cleaning, if you pay some attention to critical areas.... On the 1100, I need to keep the bolt lubed, and wipe off and replenish the Mobil 1 on the magazine tube -- that and replacing the O-ring once in a while are about it for ongoing maintenance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecelt Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 Thanks austin... I actually did read those but I appreciate the compilation. I'd like to hear from others as well. I only recently got my 930 but you could say I'm addicted to sasg's now and I can't wait to buy another. I really want the m2 but with what I'm hearing about the vm I'm currently undecided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunwoody Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I run the Benelli M2. It rarely if every has a round that won't fire or eject but it does happen. There is a reason it's the most popular shotgun in 3 gun and has been for awhile. The VM is intriguing but I will wait to buy one when every other guy on my squad has one too. Anybody that says they never have a jam with brand X shotgun is either full of shit or isn't shooting enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunwoody Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Agreed. Either its in the safe or they are blowing smoke. Have a few benelli's M2/ M4. I can say the M4 is the most reliable of all shot guns. Its has over 10,000 rds and I only clean it about every 4/5 months. My wife shoots it every weekend at any 3gun match we attend here in NC. Not ideal for the sport but holds 8+1 and does not kick. Like Jesse said.When the Vmax has been in the sport for a while and holds up well maybe then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) I recently cleaned my M2 dry so I could cut the side of the receiver down for quad loading. After cutting and polishing I reassembled to test the loading and it was great. I put the gun back in the safe and forgot about it. Brought it out a week later to shoot a 150 round shotgun match. I forgot to lube the receiver rails or the exterior of the bolt carrier. It took about 130 rounds before the bolt carrier started sticking in the back position. I was thinking WTH kinda malfunction is that. I shot another 25 rounds or a total of 150-160 rounds through it with a total 2 sticky bolt malfs due to zero lubrication. Thought you might find that an interesting bit of reliability info. Edited July 15, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacticalk9 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I recently cleaned my M2 dry so I could cut the side of the receiver down for quad loading. After cutting and polishing I reassembled to test the loading and it was great. I put the gun back in the safe and forgot about it. Brought it out a week later to shoot a 150 round shotgun match. I forgot to lube the receiver rails or the exterior of the bolt carrier. It took about 130 rounds before the bolt carrier started sticking in the back position. I was thinking WTH kinda malfunction is that. I shot another 25 rounds or a total of 150-160 rounds through it with a total 2 sticky bolt malfs due to zero lubrication. Thought you might find that interesting but of reliability info. I have another datapoint to add to that. First stage in this video I grab the M2 that is next to mine by accident and it is bone dry. Bolt stuck open every 5-8th shot. I run my gun wet. I mean Real wet. no Malfs as of yet. This shotgun was also worked by a different smith than mine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhtvbrTVHmo&feature=c4-overview&list=UUJErD7AjIwFr8IoHCCuixZw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecelt Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 I recently cleaned my M2 dry so I could cut the side of the receiver down for quad loading. After cutting and polishing I reassembled to test the loading and it was great. I put the gun back in the safe and forgot about it. Brought it out a week later to shoot a 150 round shotgun match. I forgot to lube the receiver rails or the exterior of the bolt carrier. It took about 130 rounds before the bolt carrier started sticking in the back position. I was thinking WTH kinda malfunction is that. I shot another 25 rounds or a total of 150-160 rounds through it with a total 2 sticky bolt malfs due to zero lubrication.Thought you might find that interesting but of reliability info. good info, and do you typically use grease or oil on the rails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I have soaked/coated all of my pistol, shotgun and rifle internals in FireClean. I love the stuff for the ease of cleaning more so than its lubrication properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise1 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) The Big Dog said it. Zero malfunctions are acceptable in this game. I've got a raced out M2 with over 10k rounds through it in 18 months and I can count the failures on two hands with four fingers left over. The problems it did have have been because it was too dry, mag spring was worn out, or ammo related. It will cycle low noise/ low recoil 980fps stuff as long as it's clean and oiled. I usually tear it apart and clean everything with some brake cleaner then oil it back up every 2k to 3k rounds. I also oil it every time I plan on shooting it or somewhere after a couple hundred rounds if im running it hard. K9, I told him to oil that thing up. Edited July 21, 2013 by Blaise1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) I've got a raced out M2 with over 10k rounds through it in 18 months and I can count the failures on two hands with four fingers left over. The problems it did have have been because it was too dry, mag spring was worn out, or ammo related. It will cycle low noise/ low recoil 980fps stuff as long as it's clean and oiled. 980 fps loads in an M2? You must pull the trigger harder than I do. Edited July 21, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDragon64 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I've been borrowing my dad's 930 SPX in stock configuration and have had a few FTEs, most of which come at inopportune times during 3 gun stages. It's still new, and less than 500 rounds through it, so I am hoping that it is still being broken in instead of becoming a habit. Mostly shooting Federal or Winchester bulk through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise1 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Pull the trigger harder, that's what you do when you forget the safety isn't it? It will run those 980's but I've never been real comfortable using them for anything. If all I had were static clays in front of me then they are the shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 It will run those 980's but I've never been real comfortable using them for anything. If all I had were static clays in front of me then they are the shit. I agree I have a case sitting around for that exact situation when shooting my pump gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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