Hatchet Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 If a Bladetec holster, containing an unloaded pistol, lost all of its screws and fell to the ground during a match, but the pistol did not come out of the holster, would the shooter be DQ'd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) I believe there would be no problem unless he picked the gun up without calling for an RO, and maybe not even then. Remember, dropping an unloaded gun is ok. Dropping a loaded gun is a dq offense. Edited June 10, 2013 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 If its outside the COF and the competitor does not pick it up and calls for an RO no DQ. If he picks it up or it happens during the COF(loaded or unloaded) DQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) How is a holstered gun being dropped different than a bagged gun being dropped? Edited June 10, 2013 by remoandiris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Bird Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Being a RO at our club, and not having been there to actually observe all the events leading up to and after the drop occurred, it calls for speculation. If I was ruling on this issue while the shooter was under my direction, I would rule DQ.During this issue I would have witnessed the issue. I personally think any reason a pistol should fall to the ground loaded or not while under RO eye. Would be a DQ. With all this said, that is just MHO and I feel sure others may not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) Oops. never mind. The rules are pretty clear on when a dropped gun is a dq and when it isn't. The issue here is when the holster fails and the gun is still in the holster but falls, and whether that is the same as dropping a gun, or the same as dropping a gun in a bag. Outside the COF, neither is dq-able, but the first requires RO assistance, while the 2nd should not. Edited June 10, 2013 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 How is a holstered gun being dropped different than a bagged gun being dropped? This was my thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 How is a holstered gun being dropped different than a bagged gun being dropped?As far as being a non-DQ-able action, no different. Picking it back up is different though. Since this NROI ruling declares that taking your belt off with the gun still in the holster is considered handling the gun, I would also consider picking up a gun in a holster that had been dropped handling the gun. http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=39 A competitor who, while not at a safety area or under RO supervision, removes his/her holster or his/her equipment belt with his/her handgun still in the holster, shall be considered to be in violation of Rule 5.2.1 and subject to disqualification from the match. Safety areas are provided for doing this while not under the supervision of a RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) I seem to remember a thread somewhere regarding a competitor removing his gunbelt (with the gun in the holster). Seems to me that whatever the decision was there would apply here as well. edit: high lord gomer beat me to it (barely) and even provided a link. I agree with his reasoning. Edited June 10, 2013 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacticalk9 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=39 A competitor who, while not at a safety area or under RO supervision, removes his/her holster or his/her equipment belt with his/her handgun still in the holster, shall be considered to be in violation of Rule 5.2.1 and subject to disqualification from the match. Safety areas are provided for doing this while not under the supervision of a RO. I need to remember that/check if the same rules apply to 3-gun. At our local club matches I often pop off my belt (with holstered gun) when going on a stage that doesnt require pistol. Its never been an issue at the club level but i might run into problems at a big match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 How is a holstered gun being dropped different than a bagged gun being dropped?As far as being a non-DQ-able action, no different. Picking it back up is different though.Since this NROI ruling declares that taking your belt off with the gun still in the holster is considered handling the gun, I would also consider picking up a gun in a holster that had been dropped handling the gun. http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=39 A competitor who, while not at a safety area or under RO supervision, removes his/her holster or his/her equipment belt with his/her handgun still in the holster, shall be considered to be in violation of Rule 5.2.1 and subject to disqualification from the match. Safety areas are provided for doing this while not under the supervision of a RO. Would it matter if the person intentionally removed the belt, versus the situation I described, which was accidental? From this ruling would you decide that the holster falling off outside the COF would be DQ'able? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 No, it falling off would be just like dropping a gun outside a course of fire and is not grounds for a DQ...unless you pick it back up, then you are handling a gun outside the direction of an RO while not in a safe area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 edit: high lord gomer beat me to it (barely) and even provided a link. I agree with his reasoning.Got you by an inch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=39 A competitor who, while not at a safety area or under RO supervision, removes his/her holster or his/her equipment belt with his/her handgun still in the holster, shall be considered to be in violation of Rule 5.2.1 and subject to disqualification from the match. Safety areas are provided for doing this while not under the supervision of a RO. I need to remember that/check if the same rules apply to 3-gun. At our local club matches I often pop off my belt (with holstered gun) when going on a stage that doesnt require pistol. Its never been an issue at the club level but i might run into problems at a big match. Yes the same rule applies in Multigun. No pulling belt or holstered gun off outside the safe area or under RO supervision. As far as the initial question I would treat the holstered dropped gun as any other dropped gun. DQ in COF, no DQ if not handled outside COF till an RO gets there. If anyone is curious why, bad things happen. Just shot a match this weekend where a competitor was DQd when a round popped out of his pistol at make ready. I'd rather be a 100% sure the gun was handled safely, particularly after the gun took a fall. I've seen a lot of guns that aren't what I would call drop safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 edit: high lord gomer beat me to it (barely) and even provided a link. I agree with his reasoning.Got you by an inch... That's funny, because I actually ride a ktm in real life (trail-riding and enduro tho, not mx). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I've only had 3 KTMs,two 50s and a 620. Really liked the 200s and 300s I rode, though. Recognize anyone in that pic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 How is a holstered gun being dropped different than a bagged gun being dropped?As far as being a non-DQ-able action, no different. Picking it back up is different though.Since this NROI ruling declares that taking your belt off with the gun still in the holster is considered handling the gun, I would also consider picking up a gun in a holster that had been dropped handling the gun. http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=39 A competitor who, while not at a safety area or under RO supervision, removes his/her holster or his/her equipment belt with his/her handgun still in the holster, shall be considered to be in violation of Rule 5.2.1 and subject to disqualification from the match. Safety areas are provided for doing this while not under the supervision of a RO. IMO, that is a VERY good interpretation of the rules. I had forgotten about the ruling on removing belts with holstered gun attached. Bravo. I agree with you. As long as the RO retrieves it, no DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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