A new Practiscore device option, Android platform

[BostonBullit]

I was trying to keep up on technology last week and noticed that Walmart has come out with Android tablets under their Hisense house brand. the article was about the quad core "Pro" version but the cheapo "Light" version is what caught my eye. it's a dual core 1.6Ghz with a gig of RAM and 4gig onboard memory + microSD up to 32gig. specs list a 7" screen at 1024x600; nothing amazing but not too bad.

I went to 3 different walmarts looking for a display that I could play with but none had them out, so I checked the return policy (15day money back) and decided to try one out. First impressions: well made for $100. screen is bright and reasonably crisp, not going to go head to head with a Retina iPad but I can get 5 of these for 1 of those so....touch screen is nice and response is quick. I've only played around with it for maybe an hour but it seems to be a good deal. Practiscore is installed and running without incident.

Hisense Sero 7 LT Tablet

Without having really done much with it yet I have the following preliminary analysis:

The Good:

1. price. yes they're more than a simple touch but a lot less than something like an iPad mini
2. build quality. seems reasonable fit and finish, doesn't feel flimsy.
3. responsiveness. no lag that I can detect, plays angry birds and youtube without trouble. I'll pop in a mp4 and see how it does with that
4. experience. I helped score a match on Nooks a couple weeks back and the experience was less than awesome. I really feel that these devices hold Practiscore back and have too much Palm in them, if that makes any sense. you need a responsive full color device with a good size screen to really appreciate the app IMO

The Questionable:

1. glossy screen is going to be an issue in bright sunlight
2. battery life. this is the biggie, they only spec it at 4hrs so you can probably only get 3 and change out of it at max brightness. I'll run some tests.
3. longevity. let's face it, this is a $100 full color 7" tablet produced by Walmart; need I say more?

The Pro model is a buck fiddy and has a quad core and better battery. still not too bad on $$ but I expect the new Google tablet to be in this range when it's released so we'll have more options in the coming months.

Peter

[wgnoyes]

Is it an actual glass screen that you just have to touch, or do you have to mash the screen to get it to do anything? I tried a cheapie tablet before and it was a "mash" screen. Unresponsive, and although it looked okay indoors, the two layers of plastic-whatever over the screen milked over white when you took it outside making the device unusable.

$99. Well.... that's what we were paying for NST's this time last year.

Anybody look at one of these yet? http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nextbook-7-Tablet-with-Google-Play/22127002

Edited June 10, 2013 by wgnoyes

[CHA-LEE]

A 4 hour battery life is a complete deal breaker. If the device can't maintain a charge for at LEAST 12 hours of solid use without needing recharged then its not very effective as a score keeping device. You would end up paying twice as much getting extended battery packs and extra devices to deal with the ones that go dead in the middle of the match.

The E-ink screen of the Nook is perfect for outdoor sunlight reading. There is a little bit of screen refresh lag on the nooks, but it does take inputs as fast as you can tap the screen. If you tap your input quickly then it will pick up the total input on the next screen refresh. If you tap, then wait for it to refresh, then tap again it can be a slow process of imputing scores. With practice and having confidence in your tapping skills you can input called out target scores as fast as anyone yelling out the scores. Just "Call your Shot" on the screen when you are tapping in the scores. Not too much different than shooting Looking for holes while shooting wastes time as well.

Edited June 11, 2013 by CHA-LEE

[CHA-LEE]

Is it an actual glass screen that you just have to touch, or do you have to mash the screen to get it to do anything? I tried a cheapie tablet before and it was a "mash" screen. Unresponsive, and although it looked okay indoors, the two layers of plastic-whatever over the screen milked over white when you took it outside making the device unusable.

$99. Well.... that's what we were paying for NST's this time last year.

Anybody look at one of these yet? http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nextbook-7-Tablet-with-Google-Play/22127002

The device you suggested also has a very limited battery life. Their claim is "Up to 5 Hours" which probably means only 3 - 4 with the screen at full brightness and being interacted with continually during a match.

[CHA-LEE]

Another benefit of the Nook's E-ink screen is that shooters and RO's with polarized sunglasses can see the screen without any issues. Most color screens of tablets can not be seen very well if you are using polarized sunglasses. The shooters need to be able to see their score on the screen to validate it and having a device with a screen that isn't affected by polarized sunglasses is yet another thing you don't have to worry about slowing down the match.

[wgnoyes]

Are Oakleys and Rudy Projects polarized?

[BostonBullit]

The screen is capacitive 5pt touch and is as responsive as my iPhone 5 screen; no pounding necessary. I'm still in the processes of deciding if I'm going to keep it, I brought it to work yesterday and used it on the train ride with wifi and it did ok on battery life. I'm meant to do a full charge and then do a simple run-down test by setting it to never shut the screen off and leaving it while I came to work today but I forgot .

I will say that I scored on either a Nexus 7 or Samsung 7 at a local match last weekend and it was tough dealing with the bright direct sunlight during the match. excluding the glare issue the experience was 100% better than a nook, higher resolution means more targets on screen, faster response when inputting and scrolling, and color makes it easier to see when I fat-fingered an entry; BUT you can't just discount the glare issue. I've seen another forum member had made a sunshade for their tablets, that could be an option which wouldn't be too cumbersome if done well.

I don't think we need a 10hr active battery life at my club, our matches just aren't that big, but 4hrs will be too short if that's all the device can eek out....and we're not setting up power outlets at every pit | |

the biggest issue with the slooooooow processing on the nook isn't so much the score entry, it's when you have to scroll or change screens. if you've done software development you know that end users get impatient quickly if they think what they did didn't take and start mashing at the inputs. .

[wgnoyes]

Well, I've been running 6 stage, 70+ competitor matches since January and no one's bitched yet about handling or response on the nooks. The combination of the e-ink display and run-all-weekend battery life are just impossible to ignore. We ran a 220+ competitor 9 stage state match last year and no one bitched about the speed or usability of the nooks.

Edited June 11, 2013 by wgnoyes

[CHA-LEE]

Are Oakleys and Rudy Projects polarized?

Some are and some are not.

The real worry I have with this issue is forcing the shooter or RO to remove their sunglasses (eye protection) to look at the screen. I don't want someone to take a hit to an eye because they have to lift up or take off their safety glasses in order to see the screen.

[wgnoyes]

Why is there an issue at all? I thought e-ink in bright sunlight was the hot selling points of nooks, along with battery life.

[Rob Tompkins]

I run a monthly local IDPA match and 3-gun match using Nexus 7 tablets. These tablets are at the $200 price point now. I also shoot a local USPSA match that use Nooks.

With Nexus 7 tablets: bright sharp screens, fast screen response, no hassle Practiscore set up, ~6hrs battery life with 100% screen on at max brightness and wifi on. Some minor challanges with sreen visiability in brightest direct sunlight but black on white screen layout helps alot.

With Nooks: Very good readability, long battery life, light weight, inexpensive, more complexity in setting up to run Practiscore, users seem to find a way to dump out of Practiscore and back to an e reader alot - requires a restart, slow screen repsonse makes users frustrated.

For the matches I run the Nexus 7 tablets are the best solution, the 6hr battery life is more than sufficent so far (I am thinking about some USB batteries just in case), sunlight is rarely an issue and the users like the experence. With auto update I don't have to do a thing to keep the app current. Now if I needed MUCH longer batter life and needed a bunch of tablets (only run two now) I'd probably go with Nooks but i would not like the extra effort to root them or keep them current.

I did look at other tablets and the Nexus had the best quoted battery life. If it were much shorter it would not be usable.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Rob Tompkins

[Rob Tompkins]

Well, I've been running 6 stage, 70+ competitor matches since January and no one's bitched yet about handling or response on the nooks. The combination of the e-ink display and run-all-weekend battery life are just impossible to ignore. We ran a 220+ competitor 9 stage state match last year and no one bitched about the speed or usability of the nooks.

My observations are that new users comment "WOW this is slow" but then learn nothings going to change so they stop complaining and accept - what's the point?

Most learn to cope with it or figure out a way to avoid using them to score.

[Rob Tompkins]

..... There is a little bit of screen refresh lag on the nooks, but it does take inputs as fast as you can tap the screen. If you tap your input quickly then it will pick up the total input on the next screen refresh. If you tap, then wait for it to refresh, then tap again it can be a slow process of imputing scores. With practice and having confidence in your tapping skills you can input called out target scores as fast as anyone yelling out the scores. Just "Call your Shot" on the screen when you are tapping in the scores. Not too much different than shooting Looking for holes while shooting wastes time as well.

Just as there are less skill full shooters, there are less skill full tappers. Many times at local matches we have to stop mid stage so the tablet driver can fix a mistake.

[wgnoyes]

I run a monthly local IDPA match and 3-gun match using Nexus 7 tablets. These tablets are at the $200 price point now. I also shoot a local USPSA match that use Nooks.

With Nexus 7 tablets: bright sharp screens, fast screen response, no hassle Practiscore set up, ~6hrs battery life with 100% screen on at max brightness and wifi on. Some minor challanges with sreen visiability in brightest direct sunlight but black on white screen layout helps alot.

With Nooks: Very good readability, long battery life, light weight, inexpensive, more complexity in setting up to run Practiscore, users seem to find a way to dump out of Practiscore and back to an e reader alot - requires a restart, slow screen repsonse makes users frustrated.

For the matches I run the Nexus 7 tablets are the best solution, the 6hr battery life is more than sufficent so far (I am thinking about some USB batteries just in case), sunlight is rarely an issue and the users like the experence. With auto update I don't have to do a thing to keep the app current. Now if I needed MUCH longer batter life and needed a bunch of tablets (only run two now) I'd probably go with Nooks but i would not like the extra effort to root them or keep them current.

I did look at other tablets and the Nexus had the best quoted battery life. If it were much shorter it would not be usable.

The rooting procedure I use disables the B&N e-reader stuff. There IS no e-reader to accidentally get into. Available here http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=166830&p=1852621. It's relatively simple to implement on a new or factory-reset nook. Chris Wren's rooting procedure also produces a very good dedicating scoring tablet, but has many more steps to follow.

Auto update for the android version of practiscore is not necessarily a good thing. There have been instances of releases coming out that had serious enough problems that a fix release had to be rushed on out within 24-48 hours. I'd hate to find out at the range that I had one of those bad releases pushed to me and find that I'm hosed.

But I've thought the google (asus, really) nexus. They look good. The price isn't much when you're talking about a single unit. If you're outfitting a club with a fleet of them, however, that becomes a different story.

Different experiences, I guess. No one's ever told us around here they thought the nooks were slow. Many have told us, however, how easy they are to read in daylight.

[CHA-LEE]

Why is there an issue at all? I thought e-ink in bright sunlight was the hot selling points of nooks, along with battery life.

The point I was trying to make is that the non-Nook tablets that have color screens have issues with polarized lens sunglasses. The Nooks do not have this issue.

[CHA-LEE]

I also agree that an "Auto Update" of PractiScore is not very safe. As stated before, there have been critical issues with some releases. Switching from one version of PractiScore to another should be a planned and tested event so you know its going to work. You don't want a situation where you find a new bug in the middle of your match because of an auto update.

[wgnoyes]

I also agree that an "Auto Update" of PractiScore is not very safe. As stated before, there have been critical issues with some releases. Switching from one version of PractiScore to another should be a planned and tested event so you know its going to work. You don't want a situation where you find a new bug in the middle of your match because of an auto update.

Yep.

Why is there an issue at all? I thought e-ink in bright sunlight was the hot selling points of nooks, along with battery life.

The point I was trying to make is that the non-Nook tablets that have color screens have issues with polarized lens sunglasses. The Nooks do not have this issue.

I read it wrong.

[fayetteflash]

Well, I've been running 6 stage, 70+ competitor matches since January and no one's bitched yet about handling or response on the nooks. The combination of the e-ink display and run-all-weekend battery life are just impossible to ignore. We ran a 220+ competitor 9 stage state match last year and no one bitched about the speed or usability of the nooks.

Well, consider this an official "bitch" because they are terribly slow and difficult for fat fingers to use. The stylus helps with the latter. The battery life and cost are the only reasons it makes sense to me to use. I've only heard complaints directly by the storekeepers, but we all know its all we got and no need to complain until we have a better solution.

Bill brought up a good point last night and that is to have a small paintbrush in each stage's box to wipe off any particle that is screwing with the accuracy of touches.

Back to the OP, battery life nulls this device for me.

Edited June 12, 2013 by fayetteflash

[wgnoyes]

Amazon will sell you a sack full of styluses for around $10. They help! (If you go into Staples or something similar, they'll sell you ONE for around $14!) I don't think they're slow to the point of degrading the scoring experience (again, we score 70-man 6 stage matches every month, last year's 220+ man state championships) and no one complained). Now, it's possible that depending on the rooting kit you choose, it'll be somewhat slower, but I haven't observed that, either. On the other hand, it seems to me the full-siize iPad is unwieldy to hold and score a stage, the iphone is a bit small, but I imagine the ipad mini would be exactly the right size, as would any DECENT android 7" tablet... for indoor use. I DO use an iPad and/or an iPhone outdoors as the practiscore master device to distribute the match to the nooks and pull scores back in.

Edited June 12, 2013 by wgnoyes

[sperman]

I agree with Randy. I didn't complain last year at GA state because I knew it was the first big outing for all of us with electronic scoring. It was still a big step up from paper scoring, but life would be better if the devices were faster.

[wgnoyes]

Battery life and readability.

[Mark R]

.... users seem to find a way to dump out of Practiscore and back to an e reader alot - requires a restart, slow screen repsonse makes users frustrated.

Rob,

If our users get dumped out into the e-reader, just do a long hold on the n button and it will take you back into Practiscore. The slow response is just the users waiting to click next. The Nooks do catch up on clicks during scoring. There is a technique you learn after using them a while. I can score Nooks as fast, if not faster, than paper when being called out.

Mark

[wgnoyes]

Actually what we've found is that if you dump out of PS that way and go back in the way you describe, now you're running 2 instantiations of PS!

[Mark R]

Actually what we've found is that if you dump out of PS that way and go back in the way you describe, now you're running 2 instantiations of PS!

What's your preferred method Bill?

[wgnoyes]

Find the practiscore icon on the desktop and tap that. (You're still on the Chris Wren rooting process, right?) That might take you back into the copy already resident in core. Or it might launch a new copy anyway, not sure. Getting multiple copies into memory is actually a known problem.