PaulW Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Ok, I have had a heck of a time with bill drills for the last year or so. Seems That the first shot is centered in the abox and the the hits start to climb, sometimes up into the upper a/b. Now I know your suppose to read the dot and wait until it settles, however my times would then be 2 plus sec. Now this is not just with the new gun, I have tried it with several guns. My gun and load worked awesome for an m class buddy of mine. I have tried less grip pressure to choking the gun with my off hand....not sure why I am having problems with this drill. I use to be pretty good at it. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Paul: When I took the tungsten out of my blaster and changed powder, and bullet weight, my Bill Drills also started stringing vertically. I need to keep my splits down around .17-.18 to keep the group tight. I know that's no help, but at least you know your aren't alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Paul, One suggestion only ---- set up as many targets as you have stands or space for. Then load up some mags and just shoot a Bill Drill on each target. Just glance at the timer in between --- don't take a ton of time to review or take notes. See what develops. If you're really tense or doing anything else weird --- I'd guess that at some point you'll get relaxed enough or complacent enough to just shoot, and the problem will have worked itself out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Again, I am really hesitant to give advice to a GM I have to face at local matches. I mean if you're in a phone booth with a 500# gorilla do you offer him a breath mint or just avoid eye contact?? Seriously though, have you tried shifting your weight forward? I know you had some back issues and maybe your stance has changed subconsciously from discomfort. I shot the Burner course (1st one he's done in 2+ years, thank you very much ) and he leans so far forward it looks like he is pushing someone's car. But his gun don't move. LIM / OPEN whatever, it loks like he is shooting a .22. That being said we all have to find what stance works for us individually. Maybe compare pics or video of you before and after the back problem. It might be an evolution over quite a bit of time. I have back problems too and I know that during long practice sessions my stance can be very different from the aggressive posture I take when I am fresh. Hope that helps, Let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted October 17, 2004 Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 Eric......I can always learn. I may be a GM, and I worked my butt off to get there. It's not like riding a bike where you just don't forget how. I'm starting to get back into it and there are many area's that need improvement. Plus I figure I can make things better if I start fresh now and re-leran them the right way. The more i think about it the more I think I'm not really reading the dot. A bill drill is about speed, I have that part down, but MORE importantly it's about getting your hits in the a-zone. Eric had a good idea. Shoot 1 shot and hold....shoot 2 shots and hold....shoot 3 shots and hold....etc. Learn to re-read your dot. Thanks guys...keep'em comin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 The hits climbing...a few things pop into my mind... - Timing issue. You have new stuff...and you've been off a while. Even before, you were switching guns a bit. - Stance issue. Could be the gun is pushing you back some. Are you shooting with locked elbows or straight? Knees bent? Shoulders forward...over the knees? Where is the weight on your feet? - Tension. Are you trying to shoot fast? - Back pain? My back has been hurting lately. I often ignore it...especially while shooting. But, it is there and my subconscious might be letting that creep into my stance sometimes. I'd probably try some of Burkett's timing drills (he uses different grip, but you could also play with stance, elbow position, etc). They will likely cover most of the bases. And, by shooting the extra rounds...you'll know if the gun is pushing you out of your stance more and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted October 17, 2004 Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 All good thoughts Flex. Went out today, no holster, no timer, just gun and target. I have no idea what my splits were but they were good I'm sure. All I did was pay attention to the bouncing dot. I start out with a single shot and then tracked the dot back to the first hole. Then 2 shots and tracked. Soon all 6 were in the a box. I did pay attention to my weight. Kept it forward, elbows not locked but not lazy. It was great to see all those holes in the a box. I also saw when I yanked one left or right. My back feels great but I have gained a few pounds since being inactive for several months. I think I was rushing more than anything, it's amazing what happens when a timer go BEEP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 At our practice match Friday, we set up three targets as you might see in an El Prwz, but we did a Triple Bill Drill. Surrender Start, Draw, shoot 6, reload, 6, reload 6, Virginia count. 8.12 Seconds, 12 Alpha, 6 Charlie. Gets two practices in at once. You need to hit the reloads and you need to be fast on the trigger. My splits were in the neighborhood of 0.21, 1.4 draw, reloads were a bit slow at around 1.85. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 You can't win if you shoot crappy points. So you must shoot good points (95+%) to win. That must come first, because we all know you can't miss fast enough to win. But you can't win just by shooting good points, because you have to shoot good points quickly to win. (Which is why we're not Bullseye shooters.) So to win, we must shoot good points, and we must do that quickly. And the key to doing both things properly is found in the meaning of one word - knowing. Knowing you shot a good shot (or bad shot, which you quickly made up because you knew it at the instant you fired it) at the instant the shot fired is paramount because you must shoot good points to win. And, knowing you shot a good shot opens the door to finding and shooting the next shot quickly, which is also essential to winning, because only then will you move deliberately and decisively to the next target. If you really understand that you'll realize that it is a mistake to ever think in terms of shooting slower in order to get better points, or shooting more quickly in order to have a faster time. Thinking either way will hold you back. Shooting slower to get more points has no useful meaning. You must shoot good points quickly to win, and knowing is the key to both doors. There's no other way. Winners don't shoot hopers. Well not usually anyway. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 Went out yesterday to the range and had one of my best practice sessions in a long, long while. I did 3 bill drills in a row that were by far my best ever. One I had to look twice at because I was not sure I beleived the timer. It was my fastest ever. But the thing I noticed the most was that I quit caring about the time or the speed, I just shot when I knew I would break the shot into the a-zone. My vision is coming back which is awesome. Still some rust to knock off. Saturdays match I was up and down. Dang C-more won't seem to hold elevation zero. But that is no excuss for my mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 PaulW, I had a similar situation, I had taken 2+ years off and just started back last year. I'm just now starting to feel like I can shoot again, For me it's been a timing issue. Too fast Too slow. I just had to get back to letting it happen and not try to force it. Just Sharing, And no I'm not a GM. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 It's cool when you "finally" see it isn't it Ivan? I think it's something you have to continue to learn. Not like riding a bike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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