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Poor Man's TS coming up


tortuga
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Here goes nothing - Scored a .40 TS top end due to my fine trading skills and luck. Mostly luck.

It ALMOST fits on a standard 75B frame, looks like the dust cover will have to be relieved a bit. Not going to do too much to this frame as it is destined to go on a 75BSA frame that should be in my hands in a few days.

Also have CGW goodness to install, comp hammer/sear, springs,pins, etc..

The idea is to get the sight radius and other benefits of the long slide format - LPA sights! - and still be able to use my CZ75 series parts, holsters, mags, etc..

Wish me luck, and thanks to kneelingatlas for some tech tips already.

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Edited by tortuga
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I'm looking for a TS 40 top end if things don't work out for you. Hope all goes well.....just saying.

At times like this, it is good to know that someone is behind you.

And no, I didn't get it from that source, it was a once-in-a-blue-moon post on another forum.

Edited by tortuga
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Good find.

Your post must have been cut off - I am sure you meant to say "Good find, here is what you need to do next, before the dremel tool come out to play...."

Edited by tortuga
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Maybe I am looking at this backwards. It might make more sense to take the material off of the slide than the frame - that way it would fit on another frame and I wouldn't be thinning out the dust cover. There seems to be plenty of meat on the slide in that area, and it could be done on a mill. Downside would be that it has a new Cerakote finish.

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I agree it would be easier to remove the material from the slide to fit the frame, but then when you install that slide on your Czechmate to shoot Limited there will be a gap! :devil:

That was my first plan: to buy a Czechmate and have get a TS upper for limited, but I just couldn't justify dumping $4K into my gun before shooting my first match, so I went the other direction and saved about $1,600 (although I'm still searching for the right comp)

IMG_20130206_191010_048_zps342ce947.jpg

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Got the slide on. Ended up having to remove quite a bit of material from the dust cover - the raised portion is almost gone on the sides, the bottom is still relatively thick. I went slow and tried to remove as little as possible.

The slide fit is TIGHT. Knocked the cerakote on the slide rails down and cleaned the poly off the frame until I could get it to slide a little, then lapped it in with a mixture of JB compound and gun oil. It is probably close to where it will function and feels like one solid piece of metal.

Going to try the barrel fit after a break for a refreshing beverage.

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What made you decide to stop grinding the slide and move to the frame?

Combination of things; I didn't want to farm the work out, but didn't feel that I could do a clean job on the slide with the tools I have on hand. It is a job for a mill, and would ruin the cerakote on the slide. Also, I figured the frame was pretty much dedicated to this slide. Actually the frame doesn't look wierd with the standard slide on it. How often do you look at a pistol from the muzzle end anyway? Also it would pretty much ruin the value of the slide, and as I haven't shot it yet I would rather preserve that.

Edited by tortuga
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So moving onward - found some interesting stuff. Not sure what to think yet, but the sear cage on the .40 was different and would not fit the 9MM 75B SA frame well. I got it to go in but it was a bitch to get back out and the safetys wouldn't fit right. Called CGW and CZC today and both said they didn't know of a different cage for the two, but the ejector cut and front cut are the same on both of my 9MM guns and different on the .40. Huh.

Fitted the new CGW sear in the 75BSA cage and put the frame together with the CGW hammer. Damn that combo is nice, HUGE improvement over stock. I have some before and after video to show the difference - creep is all but gone - but have to edit it before posting if anyone is interested.

The last (I hope) issue seems to be that the slide is rubbing on the sear cage. I think it is mostly built-up coating and will buff/lap out, but it is enough of a bind to keep the gun from cycling. The pic shows where it is binding up.

I think I need to remove the coating on the slide where the hammer will ride as well and polish that surface, it is going to wear off eventually anyway.

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Edited by tortuga
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I think it is ready for a range test. Finished fitting everything together, I didn't expect to have so much trouble with the top of the sear cage rubbing on the slide, but at least I got plenty of practice with taking it apart and putting it back together.

Ended up using the .40 sear cage as I don't have another .40 top end left, just a 75BSA 9MM upper that will go on the 75B .40 frame along with a Kadet.

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Weighs in a 39 ounces with an empty SP-01 mag, 2 oz. less than the SP-01 Shadow. Trigger feels great, sights look great, feel is great. Damn I hope this thing runs. Should find out on Saturday.

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CZ-USA lists a combo gun like this (except 9mm) on their website as the

CZ 75 Shadow CTS LS-P. 9mm DA/SA.

Who knows if/when it will ever be available. It is not on the CZ-Custom website.

Looks good to me! I want!

Eric

Edited by eric4069
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Range Report - Good news, Bad News

Good news: Dropped by the range today after a USPSA match to dial things in. After lapping in the slide and a LOT of fitting on the sear/slide interface it seemed ready for a range test. There was a still a bit of bind when the slide was all the way to the rear but it seemed like it would work itself out. I am trying to avoid removing any more material than necessary. When this occurred, a light tap on the slide seemed to be enough to allow it to return to battery consistently.

Loaded and fired 1 round a few times to make sure it wouldn't double, then two rounds a few more times. Then the first 5 round group at 25 yards off an improvised rest - Ta Da!

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The card at 3 3/8" x 2 1/8 " covers the group, at this point I am pretty stoked. with my eyesight, the lateral dispersion is NOT the gun. All groups had about the same aspect - 2x as wide as high.

The trigger feels fantastic, Thanks CGW. The load is a 20 year old batch of 200g FP lead bullets loaded major for a 610 revolver, I can only assume that dialing one in for this pistol would show better results. Recoil is pretty soft for a major load, I could shoot this all day. Shot a few more groups to get the feel and dial in the sights a bit. No FTF so far - this is important, read on.

From the first round fired I was checking the slide/frame lineup to make sure the thing was in battery, as it had been hanging up at the rear of the slide movement. After 40-50 rounds I stopped looking at it from the side and checking for battery and just made sure the slide was forward. At some point after shooting some groups and popping some steel swingers .....

BOOM. Powder in face, smoking gun in hand.

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After a quick system check ( all digits, limbs, eyeballs, bystanders, bodily fluids accounted for) I examined the pistol. It appeared to have fired while out of battery to a small extent, roughly the depth of the rim was still out of the chamber.

Checked it all out after getting it apart and no damage appeared to have been done. At this point I believe there are two major issues I need to investigate:

- Why did it fail to go into battery ( Pretty sure it was related to a FTF issue caused by the cerakote on the bottom of the slide)

- Why did it fire out of battery ( Got a theory on that too, will compare slide/trigger bar fitment in a few and report back - I need to compare the TS slide to the CZ75 slide and see if the trigger bar cuts are different)

Edited by tortuga
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If the ammo was loaded for a 610, do you think it is possible that you have some long rounds that may have hit rifling. I used to load 1.20 for my 610. That with an extended firing pin?

Pretty sure that isn't the issue. I drop tested a bunch of these in my CZ75B .40 and then used them in a few matches, also dropped about 25 chosen at random in the ts barrel. Also shot them in a few other .40 pistols over the years, like a Glock 22. It was a big batch loaded to .40 spec.

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OK I might be at a critical point on this project. It appears that the trigger bar timing is quite a bit different between the TS slide and the 75B frame, as follows:

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This pic shows the relationship between the slide cut and the trigger bar at the time the slide returns to battery on a SP-01: if the trigger bar is depressed by the slide, it does not engage the sear. The cut in the slide allows it to rise and engage the sear once the slide is in the right position. In the picture, the slide has just come up even with the frame and should be in battery.

The cut in the TS slide starts farther forward, so the trigger bar can come up into position and engage the sear before the slide is all the way forward. The slide in this pic should be in battery as well, but as shown it could have fired a bit before:

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This is kind of a big problem that I didn't spot before. I can fix the issues regarding returning to battery like FTF and slide bind, those are related to fitting the parts together and breaking it in. I can't live with it firing out of battery. Hope I am wrong and going back over it again, but it seems pretty clear.

Any ideas?

Edited by tortuga
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You could weld up the cut in the slide and re cut it to match the one on the 75B slide, but before I messed with the slide, I would order and extra trigger bar, add a blob of weld on the front of it, then grind it to match the contour of the TS trigger bar. If you need any pictures or measurements on the TS trigger bar let me know.

This mismatch is interesting to me since I use an SP01 slide on my TS with out any problems...

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