Nimitz Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 In order to work on increasing my draw speed I first needed to figure out where I was spending the most time. To do this I set up a target at 3 yds and did a draw and fire one shot. I could have just shot into the berm but I wanted to have to do some aiming but figured this would result in the absolute min time spent managing the sights. I did 6 draws and my times were 1.07, 1.06, 1.04, 1.04, 1.02 & 1.02. Now move the target back to 10 yds and my times increase to around 1.75. So, clearly it's not my draw mechanics which are slowing me down but the time it is taking me to mange the sights to get an acceptable sight picture and possibly my trigger control. So, given this what some good micro drills to increase sight management and trigger pull mechanics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in TN Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I don't know, but I'm in exactly the same boat as you are. I'm looking forward to seeing some good advice here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perjohn Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Steve Anderson's first drill in refinement and repetition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 ok, I'll take a look at that, thx. Anyone got any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STImoore Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Very interested in this thread. Someone please help bc I'm another guy that falls pray to this. After ten yard my time does the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Are we talking about a dot or iron sights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Steve Anderson's first drill in refinement and repetition. I use Steve's book, and start every session off with drill #1. But, like the OP, I too am .5 ~ .7 slower at 10 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 That is a big gap of time between 3 yards and 10 yards. Here's the deal. At 3 yards you can whip out the gun and hit just about anything. At 10 yards some aiming is required. It's simple. You need to work at 10 yards till your indexing is better. The problem you are likely having is that you can get the gun out but your draw is so inconsistent that you spend too much time aiming at 10+ yards. Dry fire getting a good consistent draw. Repetition and GOOD practice will get you much faster on the 10 yard targets. Keep working until the sights are lined up at the end of your draw/trigger pull- automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) In order to work on increasing my draw speed I first needed to figure out where I was spending the most time. To do this I set up a target at 3 yds and did a draw and fire one shot. I could have just shot into the berm but I wanted to have to do some aiming but figured this would result in the absolute min time spent managing the sights. I did 6 draws and my times were 1.07, 1.06, 1.04, 1.04, 1.02 & 1.02. Now move the target back to 10 yds and my times increase to around 1.75. So, clearly it's not my draw mechanics which are slowing me down but the time it is taking me to mange the sights to get an acceptable sight picture and possibly my trigger control. This is normal at first. It takes you a bit over a second to execute the drawstroke and trigger pull, and about an extra .7 seconds to do the aiming part. Higher level production shooters are a bit quicker (like .7 or so) for the drawstroke part but WAY faster on the aiming part. It takes only a tenth or two to get some sort of sight picture at 7 yards for the good iron sight shooters. It seems to me your time is better spent working on getting the sight picture. Try doing draws at 25 yards or so. You will really need to work at the sight picture there. When you move back up close it will seem super easy. Edited February 19, 2013 by Ben Stoeger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 What does he know?? ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 last week at the the range I did some draws at 8 yds to see how my draw times changed. At that distance I was consistently at 1.15 but felt a little out of my control zone and doubt in a match I would/could shoot at this speed on a first target in a stage. After thinking about your comments I agree completely that it is an indexing issue. I video all my training sessions and my draw mechanics seem smooth and consistent up to the point where my grip has been built and I'm extending the gun toward the target. It's at this point I take a long time to refine my sight picture to be ready to break the shot. I'm also probably not prepping the trigger fast enough or simultaneous with the extension so that once I have a good sight picture I still need time to prep the trigger. Can't confirm this yet but I suspect its true. I assume the Bill Drill would be good for addressing this issue of trigger prep as fast as possible? My shooting coach also confirmed that I'm currently taking "a long time" to take the first shot once I enter a shooting position and we've adjusted my training plan to work on movement & transitions to be ready to be to shoot as soon as possible. My dry fire regiment has suffered over the last few months which is probably the #1 reason I haven't progressed in my draw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 IMO it's too expensive to learn how to draw/reload with live ammo. For me anyway- if you do limited dry fire- I'd focus on draw, reloads and transitions for now. This will help you build up speed to your first shot at varying distances. You definitely want to get on the trigger quickly and safely.... at some point on closer targets (~5-12 yards for me) you won't even realize you're prepping the trigger- it will happen subconsciously. Bill drill is good for seeing how well you manage recoil. Tests draw, grip, recoil management. If you do live fire drills for draws- just do one or two shots/target IMO. Don't get sloppy and ignore the sights on dry fire drills. Be honest when you pull that trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Ben: that's a great point. I noticed when I decided to work on my plate rack skills a couple of months ago that as soon as I got away from the 10 yd line and shot plates at 15, 20 & 25 yds that i could do 10 yd plates at 6/6 under 6 secs without trying too hard. Prior to that a 10 yd rack would take around 8 secs if I wanted to go 6/6. While not that fast, the relative change in speed is huge for me .... I've also started putting my paper targets farther out for drills, not a lot but enough to enable me to move much quicker when the tragets are in close. Before I used to take the same amount of time when shooting ANY target that was 10 yds or longer. Now that I'm putting targets at 12-13 yds when the drill calls for 10 and 17-18 when they call for 15 yds, match targets are becoming easier because a lot of them are becoming closer than my training distance. this is an interesting point in my training since for the last year (my 1st yr in the sport) I focused 100% on accuracy and now I'm shifting focus to speed aspects since my match points consitently hover at ther 88-90% pts shot. I'm also accepting drops in accuracy during training as i try to expand my control zone & move faster & more efficiently. During the accuracy phase of my training i was unwilling to accept anything that dropped points but now I have another aspect to fold into this & it gives me more opitions to ghet the result I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 While its great idea to focus on hitting a tiny particular spot on the A-Zone, rather than "blasting at brown", the A Zone is rather large by comparison. See what you need to see from your gun (index, sight picture, whatever) to get the hit you want at each distance. An A is an A. Repition of the proper draw will help, in time. Presentation of the sights should happen automatically at some point; if you are having to hunt for your sights or take time aligning the front sight in your notch, go do another 1000 draws. I have seen some people try so hard to get the gun out fast that when they extend the gun, its bouncing and bobbing..... slow it down a notch and get good mechanics going, and build on that pure correct draw that presents your sights to you as you are extending the gun into firing position - with your sights already coming into alignment, start to break the shot as you are extending. If you are extending the gun and then looking for your sights, you need to reexamine your draw technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I assume the Bill Drill would be good for addressing this issue of trigger prep as fast as possible? Can you explain a little more what you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 well I was initially thinking it would be good to learn to do trigger prep since it's a speed drill but thinking about it some more the Bill Drill is really about spilts not transition speeds right? I need a drill to work on transition, sight management & trigger prep as they all work together. While working on split speed has all these elements it also includes recoil managment which is not something to be concerned about in speeding up my ability to break the first shot, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 well I was initially thinking it would be good to learn to do trigger prep since it's a speed drill but thinking about it some more the Bill Drill is really about spilts not transition speeds right? I need a drill to work on transition, sight management & trigger prep as they all work together. While working on split speed has all these elements it also includes recoil managment which is not something to be concerned about in speeding up my ability to break the first shot, right? I didn't understand much of that, but it sounds like you are overthinking this thing a whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 hmmm ... I really try not to do that so let's try this instead ... what skills are the Bill Drill used for? I'm not trying to decrease my split times at gthe moment. At the moment I'm looking to improve 3 things which I think require similar skill set improvement: 1) ! need to learn to take the first shot from the inital draw quicker, 2) I need to learn to take the first shot has I move into a new position quicker & 3) I need to learn to transition between targets faster ... so, what drills should I be doing (live & dry) to work on those specific skills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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