LE revolver sighting!

[Waltermitty]

There is this cranky part of me that thinks LEO's should carry revolvers until they demonstrate the skill and restraint necessary to carry something else.

http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=5642&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=nice-job-lapd-rapid-and-promiscuous-fail

[lora]

Make room in your boat, I'm coming in.

I don't know the exact numbers but I'm sure we had far less AD's with revolvers than autos, far easier to train novice shooters to use a revolver than an auto.

In fact, why do you think Glocks NY Trigger was created.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

There is this cranky part of me that thinks LEO's should carry revolvers until they demonstrate the skill and restraint necessary to carry something else.

http://www.gunssavel...romiscuous-fail

Having been a Police Firearms Instructor, that would be a VERY long time.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[Waltermitty]

Make room in your boat, I'm coming in.

I don't know the exact numbers but I'm sure we had far less AD's with revolvers than autos, far easier to train novice shooters to use a revolver than an auto.

In fact, why do you think Glocks NY Trigger was created.

There is this cranky part of me that thinks LEO's should carry revolvers until they demonstrate the skill and restraint necessary to carry something else.

http://www.gunssavel...romiscuous-fail

Having been a Police Firearms Instructor, that would be a VERY long time.

I realize it is a complicated issue, but I'm convinced many individuals would be better equipped with a basic revolver and training to use it.

[Shadowrider]

I know a retired sheriff in Oklahoma that swears that he could get 6 hits with a K frame Model 19 faster than any auto there was then which would have been 1911s at that time. As many times as he had to use it, and reading about Jelly Bryce, Bill Jordan and Dan Combs and him knowing all of these guys I'll not argue the fact.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Shadowrider

[Blueridge]

From a pure mechanical standpoint a revolver is faster than any auto pistol. With an auto you must wait for the slide to go through its functions before the next round can be fired. With a revolver you can engage the trigger as soon as the round is fired to fire the next round.

Basically a (double action) revolver fires as fast as you can pull the trigger. There is a required delay with an auto before the next shot can be fired. The difference between the two is nominal to almost all of us.

It comes down to capacity, as most people feel more comfortable with the higher capacity of an auto.

[Waltermitty]

From a pure mechanical standpoint a revolver is faster than any auto pistol. With an auto you must wait for the slide to go through its functions before the next round can be fired. With a revolver you can engage the trigger as soon as the round is fired to fire the next round.

Basically a (double action) revolver fires as fast as you can pull the trigger. There is a required delay with an auto before the next shot can be fired. The difference between the two is nominal to almost all of us.

It comes down to capacity, as most people feel more comfortable with the higher capacity of an auto.

I certainly understand the comfort in capacity angle for the LEO, but those of us that may find ourselves "down range" from a bad guy would appreciate a little consideration as well.

http://www.nytimes.c...nted%3Dall&_r=0

[Blueridge]

From a pure mechanical standpoint a revolver is faster than any auto pistol. With an auto you must wait for the slide to go through its functions before the next round can be fired. With a revolver you can engage the trigger as soon as the round is fired to fire the next round.

Basically a (double action) revolver fires as fast as you can pull the trigger. There is a required delay with an auto before the next shot can be fired. The difference between the two is nominal to almost all of us.

It comes down to capacity, as most people feel more comfortable with the higher capacity of an auto.

I certainly understand the comfort in capacity angle for the LEO, but those of us that may find ourselves "down range" from a bad guy would appreciate a little consideration as well.

http://www.nytimes.c.....nted=all&_r=0

Oh, I am all for effective bullet placement. knowing that you have 10-20 rounds per magazine at your disposal is not an excuse for not trying to make every shot count. I chose to shoot a revolver in competition to force myself to make every shot count. I found that mindset transfered over to when I shoot autos.

[Waltermitty]

I started shooting revolver in USPSA for other reasons, but I still find my attitude shifting when I step up to the starting position with over 20 rounds in the gun when shooting other divisions.

I like to think I would be disciplined enough in an actual shooting encounter to "shoot for score" (ie no mikes, no no-shoots, no AD's, etc). But I can't imagine how you instill that discipline in a fairly large population that goes to the range once a year (or less). Casual observations of non-competitive shooters at public ranges and other venues invariably exposes at least a few examples of people trying to see how fast they can empty a high-cap mag; it's so prevalent that many ranges post rules against it. But if you see a video or pictures of a shooting event, there appears to be at least a few of those guys at every scene.

Now, I don't want any of my LE friends to think I'm bashing everybody in uniform or think Barney Fife should be the role model, but I felt more respect for and confidence in that solitary OHP Trooper with the Colt 357 on his hip I saw at the deli, than the gaggle of an unnamed local agency in tactical black and matching Glocks carrying more hi caps than I could count down at the Arby's. I'm just sayin'...

[lora]

I started shooting revolver in USPSA for other reasons, but I still find my attitude shifting when I step up to the starting position with over 20 rounds in the gun when shooting other divisions.

I like to think I would be disciplined enough in an actual shooting encounter to "shoot for score" (ie no mikes, no no-shoots, no AD's, etc). But I can't imagine how you instill that discipline in a fairly large population that goes to the range once a year (or less). Casual observations of non-competitive shooters at public ranges and other venues invariably exposes at least a few examples of people trying to see how fast they can empty a high-cap mag; it's so prevalent that many ranges post rules against it. But if you see a video or pictures of a shooting event, there appears to be at least a few of those guys at every scene.

Now, I don't want any of my LE friends to think I'm bashing everybody in uniform or think Barney Fife should be the role model, but I felt more respect for and confidence in that solitary OHP Trooper with the Colt 357 on his hip I saw at the deli, than the gaggle of an unnamed local agency in tactical black and matching Glocks carrying more hi caps than I could count down at the Arby's. I'm just sayin'...

Well put. I remember seeing much more respectful treatment of civilians by officers who carried revolvers vs. high caps. Maybe it was knowing you only had 6 rds. to fall back on, that made you work harder on talking.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I started shooting revolver in USPSA for other reasons, but I still find my attitude shifting when I step up to the starting position with over 20 rounds in the gun when shooting other divisions.

I like to think I would be disciplined enough in an actual shooting encounter to "shoot for score" (ie no mikes, no no-shoots, no AD's, etc). But I can't imagine how you instill that discipline in a fairly large population that goes to the range once a year (or less). Casual observations of non-competitive shooters at public ranges and other venues invariably exposes at least a few examples of people trying to see how fast they can empty a high-cap mag; it's so prevalent that many ranges post rules against it. But if you see a video or pictures of a shooting event, there appears to be at least a few of those guys at every scene.

Now, I don't want any of my LE friends to think I'm bashing everybody in uniform or think Barney Fife should be the role model, but I felt more respect for and confidence in that solitary OHP Trooper with the Colt 357 on his hip I saw at the deli, than the gaggle of an unnamed local agency in tactical black and matching Glocks carrying more hi caps than I could count down at the Arby's. I'm just sayin'...

One guy I used to have on the PD range asked me why we did not train to shoot from under the cruiser. I asked why, He stated "That's where I'll be"

Training is a huge problem. Budget cuts have a direct effect on training ammo and time. Many will not shoot unless ammo and OTpay is provided. There are a few that will train or compete all the can.

Back to the revolver part of this, I have had a couple verified PDNYC revolvers that other than grip panel wear right side, they appeared as new. Still trying to get a duty and off duty set from a buddy's sister who was retired early for injury. Their guns were purchased not issued. Still is the same as far as I know. They have an approved list.

[TJ1911]

I spent a week in Chicago a few years ago-we stayed right in the Loop area, so there were a lot of cops on foot patrol and riding Segway scooters. Was surprised to see how many were carrying wheelguns.

[66L]

Every department I'm aware of here in central VA is required to carry a specific department issued weapon, myself included. Only one of them, a very small and specialized PD, carries revolvers. Larger PD's have a harder time providing that many firearms, but for most a single platform makes the most sense in terms of training, maintenance, gear, and liability that they issue. Revolvers are going to be a more and more uncommon thing to see in police work as a primary weapon.

[DougCarden]

I just completed active shooter training involving simunitions, which is cartridge based paintballs in our duty weapons. I was very comforted knowing that I could reload quickly after engaging multiple suspects, and we only loaded 5 rounds in our magazines to have to do panic reloads. We have enough people that have a hard time loading their autos.....I can't imagine them having the dexterity to fumble with speedloaders under stress. No matter the scenario, even using good tactics....we all got shot, kind of like knife training...you will get cut by a knife....I hate to say it, but I was damn glad I had mags to reload with....

DougC....and yes...I have some good bruises too....

[COF]

So if you'd loaded 6 it would have been your normal reload and you wouldn't have to panic...

[Waltermitty]

I just completed active shooter training involving simunitions, which is cartridge based paintballs in our duty weapons. I was very comforted knowing that I could reload quickly after engaging multiple suspects, and we only loaded 5 rounds in our magazines to have to do panic reloads. We have enough people that have a hard time loading their autos.....I can't imagine them having the dexterity to fumble with speedloaders under stress. No matter the scenario, even using good tactics....we all got shot, kind of like knife training...you will get cut by a knife....I hate to say it, but I was damn glad I had mags to reload with....

DougC....and yes...I have some good bruises too....

I think that's interesting Brother Doug. I don't have anything against bottom feeders and box magazines per se, but I'm proposing that knowing you didn't have the ammo to hose the scene had a positive impact on your tactics as it relates to shooting for score, or whatever you called it when you got the bad guy first.

[Dwight Stearns]

After 23 years of law enforcement firearms training I have observed that a poor shooter is a poor shooter whether they carry a revolver or an auto. A good shooter puts in the time and effort and is good no matter what they shoot. It's just refreshing to see a wheel gun in a duty rig now and then. Whatever they carry I just hope they put in the time and effort.

Dwight

[Koppi]

What do I know,

Maybe you'll shot tell it don't go bang and then think-think about re-load. The more the better for all--

If you trained in the 60's and 70's you would have shot your ammo out of that wheeler, than dumped the empty's in your hand and than thrown those in the brass can/pocket == than been shot dead by the perp.

[COF]

What do I know,

Maybe you'll shot tell it don't go bang and then think-think about re-load. The more the better for all--

If you trained in the 60's and 70's you would have shot your ammo out of that wheeler, tha^en dumped the empty's in your hand and tha^en thrown those in the brass can/pocket == tha^en been shot dead by the perp.

If that was the way you trained...not everyone trained with anal FBI rangemasters that didn't want to clean up brass. No different today. If you take shortcuts in training, they'll show up under stress and you'll revert back to them,