Allowed calibers if caliber is not specified on Production gun list

[EngineerEli]

Hey all,

I am looking to diversify my shooting and get into production. The gun I am looking at getting, the Tanfoglio Stock II, is on the production gun list but the caliber is not specified. Does this mean I am allowd to shoot it in any caliber available?

Also there apears to be a version of the same gun manufactured for Australia that has a longer (about .25") slide/dust cover/barrel to conform to their laws. If I were to be able to get one here in the US would it still be approved for use in Production?

Thanks,

Eli

[remoandiris]

Does this mean I am allowd to shoot it in any caliber available?

As long as it meets the caliber requirements for Prod in the rule book Appendix D4.

Also there apears to be a version of the same gun manufactured for Australia that has a longer (about .25") slide/dust cover/barrel to conform to their laws. If I were to be able to get one here in the US would it still be approved for use in Production?

From the rulebook;

A handgun may be approved and added to the USPSA Approved Production

Handgun List after the NROI Manufacturer’s Declaration form stating that

a minimum of 2000 complete handguns have been manufactured and avail-

able to the general public has been submitted and NROI has inspected the

handgun for compliance.

[lynn jones]

9mm and above. still scored minor, however.

[EngineerEli]

Ok, so that answers the first question. I am allowed to use 9mm or .40 as long as they are both over the minor power factor limit.

As for the seccond quesion, I appriciate the exerpt remoandiris, but i'm not entierly clear on the answer based on it.

[remoandiris]

As for the seccond quesion, I appriciate the exerpt remoandiris, but i'm not entierly clear on the answer based on it.

You can't legally use it in Prod until it appears on the NROI list.

Edited November 14, 2012 by remoandiris

[Sarge]

Ok, so that answers the first question. I am allowed to use 9mm or .40 as long as they are both over the minor power factor limit.

APPENDIX D4 — Production Division

4 Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge

case length

.38 cal. / 9x19 mm (0.354” x 0.748”

You can shoot anything bigger than these dimensions. Still scored minor though.

So yes you can shoot 40 in Production. Many shoot 40 and claim it can be loaded down to feel softer than 9mm.

[EngineerEli]

But if the gun is on the list, which the Stock II is, would it have to specify the Australian version on the list for it to be allowed. Do they ever do that for any gun? Or is the gun being on the list simply mean any gun that is sold under the name of Stock II to the public is fair game?

If anyone has any further information or links to info about the benefits of loading .40 minor for production please post them.

[Craig N]

Ok, so that answers the first question. I am allowed to use 9mm or .40 as long as they are both over the minor power factor limit.

APPENDIX D4 — Production Division

4 Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge

case length

.38 cal. / 9x19 mm (0.354” x 0.748”

You can shoot anything bigger than these dimensions. Still scored minor though.

So yes you can shoot 40 in Production. Many shoot 40 and claim it can be loaded down to feel softer than 9mm.

Another good thing about 40 minor is the start loads for Clays that everyone seems to love will make over PF so you dont have to worry about going sub minor.

[Skydiver]

I actually emailed DNROI about that exact model a couple of year ago. His response was to exactly quote the rulebook that @remoandiris posted. When I asked for clarification, basically EAA, IFG, or Tanfoglio will have to submit that version of the gun for approval.

When I pressed him a little further if an international Production shooter comes to the US to compete at a major with such a gun in Production division would they be bumped to Open. He referred me back to the rule again in his usual sphinx-like manner.

[EngineerEli]

Haha, Very interesting... So I guess the answer is no, you can't use the longer Australian version right now, but I doubt they would ever even notice the difference. They do have the notation for the Australian SP01 with the longer barrel in the production gun list though,"Various models also come with a 4.80" barrel, the added weight for these models is .176 ounces." So I guess they would have to have some note like that to make the Australian Stock II legal for production in USPSA.

[e-mishka]

Eli,

any luck finding one yet?

[EngineerEli]

Hey,

I found a stock II in .40 that I am considering getting to shoot production in 40 minor. I'm trying to figure out if the extra cost of bigger bullets is substantial enough to worry. I would love to be able to set up my press for the same oal and just change the bullet and or powder charge to go from major to minor. With 10mm mags I should be able to run long oal right? I feel like I need to get my CZ sold before I go buying anything else though...

[e-mishka]

Yep, u can use 10mm mags to load .40 long with no problems

[mda]

I actually emailed DNROI about that exact model a couple of year ago. His response was to exactly quote the rulebook that @remoandiris posted. When I asked for clarification, basically EAA, IFG, or Tanfoglio will have to submit that version of the gun for approval.

When I pressed him a little further if an international Production shooter comes to the US to compete at a major with such a gun in Production division would they be bumped to Open. He referred me back to the rule again in his usual sphinx-like manner.

It would most likely be over the weight limit.

MDA

[EngineerEli]

Hmmm I wonder if an extra 0.25`` of slide barrel and dust cover would be over the 2 oz limit. And if it was I wonder if switching to aluminum grips would help get you back under the limit. I believe they are lighter than the stock wood ones. Also, the 10mm mag would be slightly lighter because of doesn't have the spacer in the back.

[EngineerEli]

Answer from NORI:

From: DNROI [mailto:dnroi@uspsa.org]

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 11:41 AM

To: 'Val Reule'; Jacobson, Eli

Subject: RE: Question about production pistol legality

Hi Eli,

The handguns you mention are on our approved handgun list for Production, some show barrel length and weights, all show weights. Your gun can go over the posted weight by no more than 2 ounces including empty mag inserted. All the criteria states is that they must be available to the general public.

While IPSC only has a maximum barrel length of 127mm, USPSA requires that the handgun with an empty magazine inserted, must fit into a box the dimensions being: 8 15/16^th” X 6” X 1 5/8^th” as listed in Appendix D4 item 7.

If the handgun meets these criteria’s, it would be good to go.

John

From: Val Reule [mailto:val@uspsa.org]

Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 7:28 PM

To: NROI Director

Subject: FW: Question about production pistol legality

From: Jacobson, Eli

Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:16 PM

To: office@uspsa.org

Subject: Question about production pistol legality

Hello,

I'm not sure exactly who is best to ask for this, but if you could forward it to the appropriate person, it would be greatly appreciated.

I am trying to find out weather the foreign versions of certain pistols are allowable for production use? Specifically the CZ SP-01 Shadow and Tanfoglio Stock 2. Both of these have Australian versions that have barrels and frames that are about a quarter of an inch longer that their US counterparts, would it be legal for use in production in uspsa to use one of these Australian models here in the states?

Thanks!

Eli Jacobson