Silhouette and .40S&W, not what I wanted...

[elroyyboy]

Hi folks,

brand new to reloading here. I shoot a Glock 23C and only plan on shooting this gun until my proficiency increases and I feel comfortable with a more "game focused" Glock. I have read and understand the perils of shooting lead in a factory Glock barrel and am mitigating risk.

So far I've reloading, IAW Lee Data, only 165gr and 180gr jacketed bullets (Precision Delta and Winchester). I have a Lee Pro1000 and I've got it running smoothly (thanks to CowboyT videos on youtube). I'm going VERY slow, loading one case at a time, watching every round to completion. I weigh every 10 powder throws (using Pro Auto Disk with micrometer, which I like, though I've added a spring to get rid of the chain).

Right now I only have one manual (Lee Modern Reloading Second Edition) and have some pamphlets from powder mfgs and am trying to be VERY conservative. I'm looking for another manual, but am pleasantly surprised with the data available on the web.

I went to a popular reloading store in a nearby city on Friday. I had done research on lead loads and had three specific powders in mind (all relatively fast powders with low initial charge recommendations). Well, they didn't have any of them. The gentleman who helped me reloads strictly .45 ACP and I advised him to what my purpose was (USPSA, SCSA, 40 S&W 180gr LEAD). Well, I let him sell me what was in stock, Silhouette, and I'm not very happy.

Everything I've found on silhouette is leaning towards hot loads (not good for lead, are they) and different calibers. I've read some threads that say it shoots dirty in a short barrel pistol (G23C).

As I stated, I'm VERY NEW to reloading. I've still got 3/4 lb of W231 left (initial buy) and was trying to get a powder that I had seen working loads in for 40 S&W.

What can I do with a lb of powder I'm not comfortable using?

Apologies for the long post but I'm trying to include all necessary info to elicit responses that don't have to ask "What kind of gun" or "what length barrel?"

Thanks,

elroyyboy

[Babaganoosh]

You can dump it on the lawn, or put it in a pile outside and let it burn.

[splashdown]

My first thought is that you don't want to be running lead bullets through a ported barrel, assuming you have the factory barrel in it. You'll weld the ports shut in no time. Also, the ported barrel will put you in open division.

The first thing I would do would be to get an aftermarket, factory-length, non-ported barrel. I have KKM and Barsto barrels in my Glocks. Or, you could snap up a Glock 35 here in the Classified ads here on the forum - assuming you want to stick with the 40 cal. That's my favorite cartridge for the gun games, so that's one vote for 40.

The next thing I notice is that load data on Ramshot's website gives a starting powder charge of 5.3 grains of Silhouette for a 180 gr lead bullet. The velocity listed gives a 161 Power Factor. That's a bit too much for what you're trying to accomplish.

Since I don't use Silhouette or lead bullets, that's as much advice as I can give. If you wanted to try moly coated bullets with a faster powder, which I recommend, there's plenty of reading in this forum on that topic.

Good luck.

[caspian guy]

Silhouette is in my opinion probably a bit slow for .40. It would work, just not optimal. (For reference I use it in my open gun).

[splashdown]

Ditto. I tried Silhouette in my 40 open gun. 9.0 gr and a 135gr Rainier plated bullet. It did not work as well as a Power Pistol load with the same bullet.

[Guest]

"...brand new to reloading here...What can I do with a lb of powder I'm not comfortable using?"

Powder stores very well for long periods of time (decades) as long as you keep it dry and at a reasonable temperature. I say keep it...you are new to reloading so it is most likely just a matter of time before you find a caliber/bullet/gun combo that would be great for Silhouette. As the Caspian dude said, it is a good powder...just maybe not for your current application.

that's my $.02.

Edit to add:

Don't be too hard on the guy at the store, not everybody plays this game and even amongst us not everybody knows the trick power/bullets for divisions they don't shoot. I'm dumb as a rock about reloading for .40, but I can sure tell you some things you don't want to do while reloading the .38 super or the .45! Lots of trial and error goes into load development, along with personal preferences which might even be influenced by your current shooting skills.

Ok, now that is really my $.02

Edited August 26, 2012 by Bamboo

[superdude]

Why are you not comfortable using it?

In all fairness, how do you know you won't like it if you don't use it? Some powders are dirtier than others, but this will always be true. It doesn't mean the powders are bad. Sure, you can pour it on your lawn, as suggested, or you could use it and find out how it works for you, and even if you don't love it you could use it for "less than perfect" ammo. It is a good propellant, and because of it's medium burning rate it's very versatile.

You are new to reloading, and some folks over-think these things and over-interpret what they read. Prove to yourself that it is, or is not, right for you. It's called experience. Then consider what to think if you find out that it does work for you.

I've used it for lots of stuff from mild to wild in 9mm, 38 Super, and 45 ACP. It is one of my favorites for hotter loads, but I've used it for lighter loads as well.

Edited August 26, 2012 by superdude

[elroyyboy]

Wow. Lots of input, thanks.

I guess I'm not comfortable with it because it's so much slower than what I'm used to. I'm still wrapping my head around fast vs slow burning powders, differences in pressure, and recommendations I've read here and in other forums. I'm trying to be VERY cautious. Most silhouette postings I had seen were focusing on velocity and it is my understanding that slowing lead bullets down would prevent leading. I realize I have a lot to learn.

I had not read that lead bullets were/are and issue with ported guns. Where can I get some more info? I am planning on getting an aftermarket barrel(principal motivation was for use as a suppressor host/threaded). Please tell me more!

Please pardon my newness and thanks again for your input.

[elroyyboy]

And... I'm trying to stay w a 180gr bullet.

[superdude]

A slower powder will usually produce the same velocity but at slightly lower pressure, even though it usually requires a slightly larger charge weight.

lead will gunk-up your ports faster than jacketed bullets.

different is good. and it's how you get experience.

Sierra list powders as fast a Clays, to powders as slow as AA7 and 3N38, for the 40 S&W. A wide range will work.

You can control the amount of recoil you have for a given velocity by selecting gunpowders based on charge weight. See the link below for more information on that subject.

http://38super.net/Pages/Recoil.html

Welcome to the world of handloading.

[elroyyboy]

Now my brain slowly gels itself around yet another variable. . Good read! Bookmarked. Thanks.

[splashdown]

I haven't looked through this in a long long time, but there may be helpful info for you here.

http://www.precisionbullets.com/PDF/maashl40sw.pdf

Also, keep in mind that the threaded barrel will also exclude you from production. Same goes for Limited division, until the end of this year. New Limited division rules go into effect on 01Jan that would allow an extended, non ported barrel.

[elroyyboy]

Thanks splashdown!

I'd actually seen this and was reviewing it to find powders similar in burn rate (on powder burn rate chart) to silhouette to give me a starting point for 180gr lead.

I have read that I can use very similar powders in burn rate and approximately starting loads.

[FightFireJay]

Thanks splashdown!

I'd actually seen this and was reviewing it to find powders similar in burn rate (on powder burn rate chart) to silhouette to give me a starting point for 180gr lead.

I have read that I can use very similar powders in burn rate and approximately starting loads.

Given that your G-23 is a "C" model, I would think it would benefit from a slower burning powder, like silhouette, (in the same way an open gun does) to provide you with more gas volume to work the gas ports.

All in all, I say load up your ammo with that powder, as long as you don't get profound amounts of leading, it won't hurt to practice with it. Especially if you are focusing on the basics right now. When you are getting more serious and have all the hardware you want, you will probably know what powder you want to use (or at least know which 2 or 3 you will try)... by then I bet most, if not all, of that lb of Silhouete will be gone.

And in the end, if you don't use it for your current purpose, you'll probably find one for it later (like puting together some anti-bear loads with it, full power 180 gr lead will have some decent penetration)!

Edited August 26, 2012 by FightFireJay

[superdude]

AS FightFireJay noted, a slower powder would work the ports better than a fast powder and help to keep the muzzle down. See the link below for more information on that subject.

http://38super.net/Pages/Compensator%20Function.html

[splashdown]

Thanks splashdown!

I'd actually seen this and was reviewing it to find powders similar in burn rate (on powder burn rate chart) to silhouette to give me a starting point for 180gr lead.

I have read that I can use very similar powders in burn rate and approximately starting loads.

DO NOT look at a burn rate chart, take the powder next door to the one you have, and apply the same load data. Note there is no scale on the burn rate chart. They are just listed in order from fastest to slowest, and testing methods vary so the various charts are in slightly different order. Two powders may be very similar, but the one next to those could be drastically different.

To use a burn rate chart, determine where you want to go - faster or slower. Go up or down the chart and pick a powder (based on a manufacturer you like, or if you recall someone recommending it, etc.) Then, look up load data specific for that powder and bullet combo. Go with the starting load and work up slowly.

I still caution you about using lead in a ported barrel. It's going to be a bitch to clean out. At least with a compensator the ports are large and easy to get a tool in there to dig the lead out. Not so with magnaport style barrel ports.

[superdude]

Thanks splashdown!

I'd actually seen this and was reviewing it to find powders similar in burn rate (on powder burn rate chart) to silhouette to give me a starting point for 180gr lead.

I have read that I can use very similar powders in burn rate and approximately starting loads.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Never use a burn rate chart to guesstimate charge weight. Burn rate charts only tell you the relative burning rate, and many charts disagree on where gunpowders rank. Always use data from a load manual. Most gunpowder manufacturers have load data on their website.

[elroyyboy]

Ok guys. Thanks very much. I'm learning more every day. I'll try to find some recommended loads for silhouette and 180gr lead and see how it works. I've been paying pretty close attention to cleaning ports, even with FMJ factory ammo. This is my second ported Glock. I shot and carried G19C for years and finally made the leap to 40.

My primary goal in USPSA/SCSA is to become more proficient with my carry gun. My game results are not as important to me as my increased proficiency. I don't really care about which division I shoot in as much as the great coaching and advice I get from my squad mates.

Again, thanks! I'm new to the forum and very happy with the plethora of info I get here. Much better than other forums where a lot of the members don't shoot very much but put up some really pretty pictures of their "coloring" of the letters on their guns and mags. .

[elroyyboy]

Any recommendations on my next reloading manual? I have Lee Second Edition, which is great for me as a Pro 1000 user.

Thanks!

[FightFireJay]

I found the Hornady manual to be only marginally helpful for the loads that I was looking for. Between my Lee manual, Hodgdon info that can be found online, and the forums here I get most of what I need.

I have heard good things about the Lyman manual regarding shooting lead.

[elroyyboy]

Hi Again,

I'm a knucklehead. I found the ramshot online reloading guide and it gives me loads for exactly the sort of lead bullets I've got. I do like what I've read that with such a full shell casing (larger starting load than fast burning powders) I'm more likely to notice an "over charge."

I've got some lead that I loaded with W231 in groups of 10 by .1gr increases from starting loads. I am setting up for loading silhouette under the same size bullets, using the same .1gr increase from starting load and I'll compare. Of course, I'll watch for leading frequently and I have no intention of getting close to maximum loads. I'm watching my brass (I've got quite a bit) and only using "non bulge" cases for my trial. It's interesting that I've got a lot of "once fired" brass and have sorted by striker type (striker or firing pin) and the firing pin brass looks bulged as frequently as the striker fired. I know that there's a difference between once fired and fired once.

Thanks for everyone's help and for steering me in the right direction and focusing my incorrect assumptions (burn speed chart).

I'm really excited about reloading but I am being very cautios. At this time, I'm only loading one case at a time on my Pro 1000. Once I've got that down pat, I'll consider using the case feeder. Even checking every case for powder charge, one at a time still goes pretty fast if I've got my components placed ergonomically.

Thanks!

[splashdown]

You found the loading manual on Ramshot's website, so that's good. At this point, all I can say is show up to a match with 300 or so of your reloads, 4 or 5 magazines and sign up for Open division. If you work up to 5.5 grains of Silhouette, you could probably declare Major power factor legitimately.

Most importantly, Be Safe and Have Fun!!!

[LtDave]

5.4 grains of Silhouette with a 180 gr jacketed bullet has been the most accurate load for me in several Glocks, with 1.0 to 1.5 inch groups at 20 yds off the bench. Unfortunately, it doesn't make major, approx 150 PF.

[FightFireJay]

Slightly off topic but it may come in handy...

I also load for a Glock 23 (although not a compensated version). Unique is my "go-to" powder for lead (180 gr moly coated lead from Bear Creek) because i get almost zero leading with it. Plus it's middle of the pack on burn rate, so I'm not pushing any pressure boundaries to make major power factor. And a double charge would be obvious.

[AWLAZS]

I used it in my G22 with a 180 lead bullet. It was accurate and felt good.