Match Whiners

[MTrout40]

I don't know about other clubs in the US, but we have a small handfull of people(like4-6) that set-up, run, and tear down our club match.  So after all that work, we get certain @ssholes that claim we cheat on classifiers, have unfair stages, and the RO's shouldn't get a break to have lunch because it takes to long.

Here is what I have to say about all that...

F**k you.

We did make a mistake setting up the classifier, but it was corrected before anyone shot it.....if a stage is too hard for you because you can't shoot weakhand, or you can't hit a tight shot at 50ft...or you don't like having a lunch break..then f**k  you..stay at home and make someone else misrable.  

The way I see it, everyone has to shoot the same stage you do, it's a challenge you have to face and overcome.  If you want to shoot 4 guns at the same match and expect to show up at 2pm to start, get real, we only have so much time in a day to run 70+guns through a 5 or 6 stage match.  And as far as the lunch break goes..the small group of people that do this show up at 8am or earlier, and don't leave until 5 or 6 pm, not to mention this is ALL WEEKEND LONG...if you don't think they deserve a 10 minute lunch break at 12 or 1...then f**k you too.... go start your own club and run your own match.  We don't run a match that has "shoot these from this box, move here and shoot these from this box, and do this."  We actually have a lot of thought and design in our courses.  Hell, we have been told that some of our monthly matches out did some Area Championships!!

We are suppose to be on the range having fun.  It's a game, enjoy it while you can.

I won't go any further than that, but as you can see, it was a trying weekend!  Oh yeah, all NO_SHOOT hits after the first one shouldn't count!!

(Edited by MTrout40 at 5:00 pm on May 26, 2002)

[Nolan]

DISCLAIMER....THIS IS NOT A FLAME.......DISCLAIMER

I've been on both sides of this issue.  I know what it is like to be unappreciated, but I also know what it's like to be on the other side of that "F**k You!" attitude.  That attitude will drive EVERYONE away from your matches not just the lazy cretins that make you feel that way.

So please accept this as a hearty pat on the back for putting on a good match, have a nice cold adult beverage of choice and don't let the bastids get you down.

[MTrout40]

Nolan,

 I completely understand what your saying.  And you can see why I'm not in charge of the "complaint department".  I don't play politics, I basically say what I'm thinking.  We have some good guys that can hold their feelings back a little and "be nice".  The good side is...for every 1 that thinks we have a horrible match, 20 tell us how much fun they had.  Most of them actually say "thank you" before they leave, so there are only a small handfull of whiners around.  It just cracks me up that these same people complain every month about petty things, but you go to their club and they have 3 stages that look the same and all of them took about an hour to set-up.  But we show up every month, shoot the stages, thank them for holding a match, and go home.  Even if there is something we don't like, we don't walk around the entire match bitching about it to everyone we see.  As long as it's not something extremely illegal or unsafe, we do what we came to do..shoot and have fun!

And I apologize to everyone for the harshness of the first post, but I needed to vent and this is where I was when I got a not so great phone call.  But that's history and we're ready to do the next match!!

[Chriss Grube]

Hey Matt,

Pack up the club and move it East about 250 miles. Then I'll have a bunch of kick ass matches to shoot. I have a pretty good idea of who you are talking about, don't let him bother you. Everybody knows he's an ass. You guys put on some great matches. The clubs out here you shoot 1 gun only. No reshoots through with a second or third gun.

[vluc]

I understand Mtrout as I was at that stage as tear down was occuring.  Mtrout had left, and i ran the stage for a bit until some other folks came by to help out.  As a new RO, I helped run a side match last month, and this was my first time on a large stage (and a really excellent one by the way).

Some folks in question did a huge amount of complaining and, what i felt, was personal attack on Mtrout.  Whether because of their age they can't run with him, or its just envy that a relatively young and new shooter is at the level he is at, i don't know.  But these two guys...one in particular, just took exception to everything and anything that was said, especially trying to quote the rule book on an issue of shooting steel when the range had already made clear its stance due to bay size.

For me, the match was excellent and I always thank the RO's.  The nice part was that my first attempt (with some tweaking by one of our folks) at a COF was used as one of the stages.  hehe...mine was the one forced you to go weak-handed...maybe we should hold it back and dust it off for the Tri State???

I was unable to stay late to tear down, and unfortuanelty my work keeps me out such that I don't  have the ability to help set up.  But I do volunteer to run stages, don't mind working my butt off (RO work is HARD!), and support this club as much as I can.  it's been good to me and I want to return the favor.

Breaking for lunch is no issue...these guys needed it as we had a large group of folks and the stages were not quickies.  Had to think and plan, not just spray and pray.

Mtrout, print out a schedule to post on the door so folks know when they come to register that there will be a break for lunch.  Force them to squad up in advance so they can't complain about waiting, and F*&k them if they can't deal with it.

[MTrout40]

Chriss, thanks for the kind words..and yes HE is!!  I know you shoot out major matches we hold, and let me tell you, the same amount of thought and detail go into our monthly matches as well.  Thanks again.

 vluc....that incident you mentioned is just one of about eight that happened.  If you can beleive it, that one was mild compared to the others!  I'm not getting fired up again...it's done and gone, and next month will be an even better match.  

  You have been a great help this year, along with a handfull of other new RO's, and we certainly do appreciate it.  You guys have been great!!  It's because of people like you that make it so much fun to put on a match.  I know the RO's are there for the shooters and not the other way around...but there's a difference between having a valid argument, or just being an @ssh**e.

Thanks again for the kind words...that's what makes it worth it!!  See you guys on the range (having FUN!!)

[Chriss Grube]

Matt,

Out here they have Squad times. A couple clubs up in NY have a 10 and 1 start. If you aren't there on time you don't shoot. That seems to prevent any of the BS. They have a shooters meeting 15-30 minutes prior to the start. You tear down the stage you finish on at the end of the day. It stops a lot of the shoot and scoot crap. It takes about 10-15 minutes to tear down the average stage with the whole squad helping.

[Steve Moneypenny]

I heard about some of the incidents, especially the lunch one. i will be the first to say that i don't want to stop for lunch. (don't shooot yet!)but i feel that the RO's definitley deserve a break, so i chill out and wait. there are a LOT of good people to shoot the breeze with humm, i can think of some pretty excellent shooters to pick the brain of at times.

<suggestion> put up a post saying "all bays much break for lunch at ####" and have your RO's stick pretty close to it.

i don't like the idea of squadding, because then you either have a bunch of slow assed shooters slowing those of us who want to reshoot down, or you have a bunch of US hurrying them which i don't want to do either. and a lot of times you have shooters that sort of squad themselves. which also works great. also with roving RO's you can have stage/scoring consistancy problems.

chris, NO, if they come anywhere it will be south, here we will just take the complainers out and beat them with a stick!

I think sometimes the matches are a little "advanced" at east huntingdon, but i enjoy that a LOT, its a good break from IDPA, yes, i shoot that too, and blame that for my going brain dead twice on the stage matt was running and looking like a fool.

i am not usually a very praising person, but when i say a club is good, there is no quesiton in my mind that it is, and e. huntingdon is very polite and receptive to the shooters, good and bad, i think they spurr great creativity.

Vluc good stage, although i was a bit confused at first. and didn't like it to begin with, i thought it was pretty cool... yet, still don't understand the water jug placment thing.. again, it is a good challenge just not used to it. i can say i Like it in retrosect. however there was a way to shoot it strong hand only. :-) yes i figured it out as did quite a few other shooters, btu they were a little less effective it seemed. i am sure some of the masters and GM's blew me away though.

hope to make it up there a bit more often.

if any of you know who the shooters from my area that were comlaining about the lunch thing were, email me off list, i am curious, and have a feeling that there may be another club starting up around here some time.

[Dowter]

Hey there "other Vince"!  I just wanted to pipe in and say that I loved your stage.  It was the only stage that I didn't have any goof ups on so I'm of course partial to it.  I can't wait to get the results back since I think that I have an outside chance of having won that stage.  (Of course now that I've shot my mouth off, my score will probably be about 20th place and about 10 seconds longer than I remember)

Update 6/6/2002 - Dammit, my memory failed me.  I did it in about 3 seconds more than what I remember and I came in third place.

The reason I did so well on that stage is that I used to really hate shooting weak hand so I decided to practice it.  The first time I shot weak hand it felt like I was gripping the gun with one of my feet.   I decided that if I didn't have this skill it's far better to learn it than to bitch and moan about having to use it.  Unfortunately there are too many shooters who have a mindset of what skills they should or shouldn't need and complain when they don't have some skill which is needed.  Let's just say that this last match gave me a short list of skills that I need to work on.

I don't get the mindset of people who only want challenges that are easy to accomplish.  I goofed up the two no shoot poppers in front of four poppers array (twice) but I enjoyed the challenge.  Shooting at wide open arrays gets old.

In my short an unmemorable IPSC career, I would have to say that the las E Hunt match was the best one that I've shot so far.  Sure it was the one that I screwed up the most but it was challenging and original.  It was much more than just boxes and barrels.  I can see now the difference between a great match and a so-so match.  

(Edited by Dowter at 7:22 pm on May 30, 2002)

(Edited by Dowter at 12:38 pm on June 6, 2002)

(Edited by Dowter at 12:39 pm on June 6, 2002)

(Edited by Dowter at 12:58 pm on June 6, 2002)

[vluc]

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Quote: from Dowter on 5:21 pm on May 30, 2002

Hey there "other Vince"!  I just wanted to pipe in and say that I loved your stage.  It was the

only

stage that I didn't have any goof ups on so I'm of course partial to it.  I can't wait to get the results back since I think that I have an outside chance of having won that stage.  

(Of course now that I've shot my mouth off, my score will probably be about 20th place and about 10 seconds longer than I remember)

Big Vince, you are too kind!  I had fun with that and thank Bill Warble for giving some guidance and development on it.  As a production shooter, i thought the weak/strong shooting levels the field as I have watched a bunch of limited and Open folks not do so well at one handed shooting.  They can rock and roll on the open courses freestyle, but one handed slows then down.  Did not do as well as I wanted, but it was my first chance to shoot it as well!  LOL...design it, but don't win it!

The reason I did so well on that stage is that I used to really hate shooting weak hand so I decided to practice it.  The first time I shot weak hand it felt like I was gripping the gun with one of my feet.   I decided that if I didn't have this skill it's far better to learn it than to bitch and moan about having to use it.  Unfortunately there are too many shooters who have a mindset of what skills they should or shouldn't need and complain when they don't have some skill which is needed.  Let's just say that this last match gave me a short list of skills that I need to work on.

As I was taught for this, if you don't learn something each time you shoot you've wasted your time! Learned a great deal on Sunday as well.

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I don't get the mindset of people who only want challenges that are easy to accomplish.  I goofed up the two no shoot poppers in front of four poppers array (

twice

) but I enjoyed the challenge.  Shooting at wide open arrays gets old.

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Then you'll like what I'm working on!  Little bit of moving, high and low stuff...oops, forgot that you are taller than me!

In my short an unmemorable IPSC career, I would have to say that the las E Hunt match was the best one that I've shot so far.  Sure it was the one that I screwed up the most but it was challenging and original.  It was much more than just boxes and barrels.  I can see now the difference between a great match and a so-so match.

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I have to echo that.  Bill, Matt, Ron, and the rest of the folks have put together two consecutive months of kick butt stages.  The steel shoots are challenging, and the IDPA folks have also put together excellent COF's!