Speed vs accuracy

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

I would say that it probably took me a year to go from not calling my shots to calling all of my shots. But I also spent a lot of time/rounds on testing shot calling verses looking at the targets while point shooting to see if I could get away with not calling my shots on closer/easier targets.

So, after deciding to call your shots, you needed to follow-up with tens of thousands of rounds of live-fire practice to develop the skill to the point where you were consistently calling your shots. (In terms of hours, that would be hundreds, I'm guessing.) That puts things in perspective.

[nick romero]

everyone tells me to be quick on target transition but smooth and accurate on shots. speed is important but your shots and point count alot more in my opinion

[lawboy]

All you need to do is open up your mind to allow yourself to observe what is happening.

You can say, "All you need to do is open up your mind to allow yourself to observe what is happening," but it seems to take hundreds or thousands of hours of practice to achieve that level of open-mindedness.

I disagree. It comes down to making a choice to observe what is going on or to not observe. For a lot of shooters their observation of the sights usually stops as soon as they decide to pull the trigger. Its like a two stage thought process that happens. Stage 1, align the sights. Stage 2, decide to pull the trigger. If you are stuck in this two stage process then you will never be able to effectively call your shots because your attention is pulled away from observing what is going on when you are thinking about pulling the trigger.

OMG. CHA-LEE has got it nailed here. I see so many shooters locally doing the two-stage thought thing. They will blaze through a stage and when it is scored they have Ds everywhere, 2-3 mikes, and a couple no shoots. They simply cannot be calling shots or even aiming the gun through the trigger press. They are way faster than I am. But I am always higher in the standings than they are. Some people just cannot understand that they need to use marksmanship in this game.

[theycallmeingot]

Moving your head while shooting - A lot of people tend to move their head to the next target or shooting position as they break the last shot on target. Any head movement while shooting will deviate the gun position and pull it off your aiming point.

CHA-LEE, in this video of todd jaret, he explains that he is indeed moving his head to the next target before the last shot breaks on the previous target. or atleast that is how i took it. would you say he's doing this because of unique circumstances? it's a short range, large target course he's shot thousands of times, so maybe he's changing his mechanics a bit?

i'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything. i only ask, because when i watch my hatcam videos back, i notice i'm moving my head to the next target as the gun is firing sometimes.

at first it sounds like he's saying that immediately after the 2nd shot breaks, during its recoil, he's already looking for the next target. a few seconds later, it seems to me he's instead saying that he's turning his head after the FIRST shot.

as an aside, when i'm shooting my fastest/smoothest (not too fast for my ability), the word "then" seems to have less meaning. it's not shoot, then, shoot, then move head. it seems like it's all happening at the same time. i guess i'm fishing for either a "you're on the right track" or a "fix this now."

thanks,

Andrew

PS i'm not generally in the habit of using youtube videos to practice my own shooting. i just stumbled across this old video and found it interesting.

[Coach]

Once the sight lifts you move on to the next target.

[Poppa Bear]

Moving your head while shooting - A lot of people tend to move their head to the next target or shooting position as they break the last shot on target. Any head movement while shooting will deviate the gun position and pull it off your aiming point.

CHA-LEE, in this video of todd jaret, he explains that he is indeed moving his head to the next target before the last shot breaks on the previous target. or atleast that is how i took it. would you say he's doing this because of unique circumstances? it's a short range, large target course he's shot thousands of times, so maybe he's changing his mechanics a bit?

i'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything. i only ask, because when i watch my hatcam videos back, i notice i'm moving my head to the next target as the gun is firing sometimes.

at first it sounds like he's saying that immediately after the 2nd shot breaks, during its recoil, he's already looking for the next target. a few seconds later, it seems to me he's instead saying that he's turning his head after the FIRST shot.

as an aside, when i'm shooting my fastest/smoothest (not too fast for my ability), the word "then" seems to have less meaning. it's not shoot, then, shoot, then move head. it seems like it's all happening at the same time. i guess i'm fishing for either a "you're on the right track" or a "fix this now."

thanks,

Andrew

PS i'm not generally in the habit of using youtube videos to practice my own shooting. i just stumbled across this old video and found it interesting.

The wind does make it tough but my impression of what he was saying is: After the first shot I am looking at where I want the second shot to hit. As the second shot breaks I am looking at the next target because the gun will move to where you are looking.

[HoMiE]

TJ said after he follows through, that is fires shot, sees sights lift and return, and the he is driving the gun by looking where he wants to fire next shot. I've been in his class and I think what he is saying is on that second shot when you see sights lift that is where the bullet will go so you don't need to wait o the second shot to see sights return, you only need to see sights settle after first shot. Where the sifts lift is where to bullet is headed.

[Lager]

Im glad this thread is growing larger ,because Im learning more with every post.

I especially liked Cha-Lee's comment " All you need to do is open your mind to allow your self to observe what is happening".

At the range tonight I ran thru some drills and tried to "observe what was happening"

Come to find out, I can actually call my shots. Only broke the trigger when the shot picture looked good for for an A hit.

Started out with a target at 15 yards, started out slow and then increased speed until I blew my self out of the A zone, then backed up a bit.

Useing multiple targets, two shots per target. I found I was most effective at .30 shot split useing a stock 1911 useing major and 200 grain heads.

I know this is pretty slow as compared to most of you, but try as I might? I cant contain the recoil of this 45 to shoot any faster and gather A hits.

Match this weekend and with my new found knowledge from here, Maybe I will do better? Will keep you informed.

[Poppa Bear]

Lager, How is your grip?

Splits are a balancing act between the guns mechanical force, your grip, and your overall arm strength. If you were shooting a .22 you could have some real fast splits. With a tight enough grip and enough arm strength it is possible for the gun to have zero movement. So your splits would be as fast as you could squeeze the trigger. Now pick up a .500 S&W. I do not care how big and strong you are, that gun is going to have some serious recoil that cannot be easily tamed. You would be doing very well to have a split that is under .5 seconds. Most people would be lucky to have a split of less than 1 second.

Your job is to determine what your guns mechanical split time is. The more it moves in recoil the bigger the split time. You can change the mechanics of your gun by adjusting the springs, your load, your grip, your overall strength, but ultimately there is a point where you cannot shoot it any faster and still control where that second shot is hitting.

Try shooting another persons gun and see if you can shoot theirs any quicker. Have them try yours. If you are both at around .30 with your gun then that is all the quicker you can shoot it without making some changes. If you can shoot theirs quicker then what feels different about theirs that lets you control it easier? If they can shoot your quicker than you can then what are they doing differently? Better grip? Stronger?

[Poppa Bear]

Hadn't shot SS in a while so I figured I would get some well needed trigger time in. This is very different than shooting either of my Limited guns. I do not know why I drop it so far while doing a reload, I keep it much higher with my Glock or 2011. 6th shot was a trigger freeze that went over the target. I watched it go over and could not do a thing to change it.

Load is a 200 gr Moly at a 171 PF. Mainspring is 19 lbs. Recoil is 14 lbs.

After watching this I decided I need to spend a lot more time dry drawing and practicing my reloads before I try to compete in a match.

[CHA-LEE]

Moving your head while shooting - A lot of people tend to move their head to the next target or shooting position as they break the last shot on target. Any head movement while shooting will deviate the gun position and pull it off your aiming point.

CHA-LEE, in this video of todd jaret, he explains that he is indeed moving his head to the next target before the last shot breaks on the previous target. or atleast that is how i took it. would you say he's doing this because of unique circumstances? it's a short range, large target course he's shot thousands of times, so maybe he's changing his mechanics a bit?

i'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything. i only ask, because when i watch my hatcam videos back, i notice i'm moving my head to the next target as the gun is firing sometimes.

at first it sounds like he's saying that immediately after the 2nd shot breaks, during its recoil, he's already looking for the next target. a few seconds later, it seems to me he's instead saying that he's turning his head after the FIRST shot.

as an aside, when i'm shooting my fastest/smoothest (not too fast for my ability), the word "then" seems to have less meaning. it's not shoot, then, shoot, then move head. it seems like it's all happening at the same time. i guess i'm fishing for either a "you're on the right track" or a "fix this now."

thanks,

Andrew

PS i'm not generally in the habit of using youtube videos to practice my own shooting. i just stumbled across this old video and found it interesting.

I understand your confusion here but I ask you to watch the video again. But this time watch the correlation between his head and arms while shooting the drills. He is moving his head and arms as one single unit just as I described. He is transitioning more with his waist verses his knees but everything from the waist up is moving from left to right as a single unit. He is not turning his head to the next target to engage. The video shows a perfect example of head and arms moving as a single unit every time he shoots the drill.

I think that you are confusing "Looking" at the next target with moving your head to the next target. He over exaggerates moving his head to look for the next target while talking about it to the crowd but realistically how else is he going to get that point across in that kind of demo situation? Its not like the people are standing close enough to watch his eyes move when he is trying to explain that you need to look for the next target. YES you want to start "Looking" for/at the next target right after the second shot breaks on the current target. But that should done by moving your eyes to the next target, not your head. This is why its important to keep your stance in a shooting position and natural point of aim roughly in the middle of the array of targets. Doing this allows you to easily find your next target my moving only your eyes and then transitioning to it with your knees or waist.

[theycallmeingot]

Very helpful. thank you sir.