Why Are More Saiga 12's Not Used?

[arrowrod]

I shoot a Saiga, home made. I am lucky to have two local 3 gun matches a month. Unfortunately, because I crush the competition in long shotgun stages, the matches are starting to be 10 target shotgun stages.

So yeah, tubers are afraid.

[KentG]

seems this thread is drifting to beat up 1919.

Could be because this is a Saiga thread.

Doug

Yea it is ...so why are so many Saiga owners randomly bringing up the 1919???????

I think most of them have seen a 1919 at a match and are glad they have a Saiga!

With the Gen 2 mags my Akdal ran perfectly at the last match and in practice. I just sold my last Saiga. 15 round mags are in the works and Jim has new stamped bodies on the way. New Saiga open gun sales are going to run off a cliff I think. I will not go back to the Saiga platform now that a BETTER choice is out. I want all the Akdal haters to remember how they bad mouthed them by the end of this summer. Viva la revolution!!

[Alaskapopo]

seems this thread is drifting to beat up 1919.

Could be because this is a Saiga thread.

Doug

Yea it is ...so why are so many Saiga owners randomly bringing up the 1919???????

I think most of them have seen a 1919 at a match and are glad they have a Saiga!

With the Gen 2 mags my Akdal ran perfectly at the last match and in practice. I just sold my last Saiga. 15 round mags are in the works and Jim has new stamped bodies on the way. New Saiga open gun sales are going to run off a cliff I think. I will not go back to the Saiga platform now that a BETTER choice is out. I want all the Akdal haters to remember how they bad mouthed them by the end of this summer. Viva la revolution!!

Again way to soon to celebrate victory. Even if they get the AKDAL functioning right which I believe will happen. It recoils a lot more. It needs a better comp. Frankly it does not do anything better than a Saiga other than cost less at this point. The cost savings is soon eaten up by the cost of the mags if you can get them.

Pat

Edited May 7, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[KentG]

seems this thread is drifting to beat up 1919.

Could be because this is a Saiga thread.

Doug

Yea it is ...so why are so many Saiga owners randomly bringing up the 1919???????

I think most of them have seen a 1919 at a match and are glad they have a Saiga!

With the Gen 2 mags my Akdal ran perfectly at the last match and in practice. I just sold my last Saiga. 15 round mags are in the works and Jim has new stamped bodies on the way. New Saiga open gun sales are going to run off a cliff I think. I will not go back to the Saiga platform now that a BETTER choice is out. I want all the Akdal haters to remember how they bad mouthed them by the end of this summer. Viva la revolution!!

Again way to soon to celebrate victory. Even if they get the AKDAL functioning right which I believe will happen. It recoils a lot more. It needs a better comp. Frankly it does not do anything better than a Saiga other than cost less at this point. The cost savings is soon eaten up by the cost of the mags if you can get them.

Pat

Yes it does things better than the saiga. The biggest is the ease of mag changes. I didnt have to polish the bolt out of the box and the ability to mount a dot of pretty much any brand on the rail. I didnt have to check the holes for a vodka special. Its all starting to be like a glock vs XD vs M&P thing.

[bwo6.5]

I can't see Mag changes being any easier or faster than with the R&R Saiga and their mag well with the extended release. My Saiga mag changes are actually faster than my AR mag changes. I fired up the CNC and here are some pictures of a holder that I made to go my Safariland belt system. I used it in three or four matches so far and it works extremely well.

[Alaskapopo]

seems this thread is drifting to beat up 1919.

Could be because this is a Saiga thread.

Doug

Yea it is ...so why are so many Saiga owners randomly bringing up the 1919???????

I think most of them have seen a 1919 at a match and are glad they have a Saiga!

With the Gen 2 mags my Akdal ran perfectly at the last match and in practice. I just sold my last Saiga. 15 round mags are in the works and Jim has new stamped bodies on the way. New Saiga open gun sales are going to run off a cliff I think. I will not go back to the Saiga platform now that a BETTER choice is out. I want all the Akdal haters to remember how they bad mouthed them by the end of this summer. Viva la revolution!!

Again way to soon to celebrate victory. Even if they get the AKDAL functioning right which I believe will happen. It recoils a lot more. It needs a better comp. Frankly it does not do anything better than a Saiga other than cost less at this point. The cost savings is soon eaten up by the cost of the mags if you can get them.

Pat

Yes it does things better than the saiga. The biggest is the ease of mag changes. I didnt have to polish the bolt out of the box and the ability to mount a dot of pretty much any brand on the rail. I didnt have to check the holes for a vodka special. Its all starting to be like a glock vs XD vs M&P thing.

Really I can change my mag with my arredondo coupler in just a few seconds. Its simple grab the mag hit the mag release and move the spare mag into the mag well. The AKDAL is slower that I have used because it does not have a coupler system with a shell stop yet.

With my R&R Saiga I did not have to polish anything out of the box nor did I have to check for the holes. In its stock form yes the Saiga is harder to reload but who here is using stock guns in open?

Pat

Edited May 7, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[KentG]

It is all each persons opinion. I will stick with what I like and so will everyone else.

[Alaskapopo]

It is all each persons opinion. I will stick with what I like and so will everyone else.

Thats fine but you said that Saigas are slow to reload and that is false with an R&R saiga. Robert can do a reload in 1.68 seconds with his.

What I resent is people claiming the Saiga is dead and the AKDAL is the way of the future when the Saiga is still running strong and the AKDAL is not even fully ready yet. Two of our shooters up here have them now from Firebird and they look like nice guns. But neither is functioning correctly yet. Both are short on mags. There are no mags with more than 10 rounds yet, there are no mag couplers yet. Basically the Saiga is still a strong choice and in my opinion an R&R saiga is the best choice for Open shotgun. The AKDAL is still in its infancy and will likely prove to be a good contender later on when its got full market support and the bugs are worked out. I am not against the AKDAL and in fact I support as many choices in the game as possible. What I don't care for is people throwing dirt against another weapon system and the companies that support them and the sport like R&R targets.

Pat

Edited May 7, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[bwo6.5]

I don't have any prejudices against the AKDAL. As things go with me, I will probably end up with one. But without having reliable magazines it is just not an immediate choice. Ever since I have owned my R&R Saiga I have just had a lot of fun shooting it. Especially since I got the 20 round mags. As a matter of fact, I like it so much that I ordered a second one today. I am one of those individuals that like to have a back up for all of my firearms.

[GentlemanJim]

I guess I have to chime in here.

The saiga has been around for over 20 years, and has only been exploited in 3 gun for a few years.

It took a few years just to work out the mags then another decade or so to bring it up to where it is now.

The MKA has only been here for a single year, I have been working on it for less than a year.

In just a few months I have designed and built the following parts.

All parts USA made

1 High energy hammer compatible with a stock AR15 trigger.

2 disconnector

3 ambi safety trunnion using levers from Battle Arms

4 Billet aluminum railed handguards with ambi side charging system.

5 complete pump action system, to convert from semi auto.

6 complete new high energy operation system, short stroke captive piston.

7 adapter for AR15 stocks, carbine or fixed.

8 adapter for AR15 pistol grip, accepts all makes.

9 mag couplers for surefire to 5 rnd and 2 rnd MKA mags.

10 gen 1 mag extensions for MKA 5rnd mag.

11 gen 2 mag extensions for MKA 2rnd mag.

12 Rail mounted shell stop and spacers for coupled mags.

13 H&K style barrel mounted front sight.

14 accessory mag well.

15 accessory bolt lock, trigger finger actuated.

16 anti walk hammer and trigger pins.

17 stainless guide rod.

18 aluminum guide rod.

19 Stainless piston (direct replacement 922r part)

20 extended mag button.

21 extended charging handle.

22 titanium firing pin.

23 direct replacement recoil spring.

24 plus 1.5lb recoil spring.

25 high load mag spring.

26 accessory rails for stock handguards.

27 Billet aluminum complete lower receiver assembly.

28 mid barrel comp.

Not all of these parts are available to the public yet, but all have been prototyped and are ready for full production.

where do you think it will be in a year or so?

The only real issues with the guns at this time are related to the early MKA mags and the mag springs.

Its a learning curve for sure, but it has come far in just a few months.

I dont think the Saiga will just go away....but its nice to have an alternative.

Jim

[Larry LeBeau]

I guess I have to chime in here.

The saiga has been around for over 20 years, and has only been exploited in 3 gun for a few years.

It took a few years just to work out the mags then another decade or so to bring it up to where it is now.

The MKA has only been here for a single year, I have been working on it for less than a year.

In just a few months I have designed and built the following parts.

All parts USA made

1 High energy hammer compatible with a stock AR15 trigger.

2 disconnector

3 ambi safety trunnion using levers from Battle Arms

4 Billet aluminum railed handguards with ambi side charging system.

5 complete pump action system, to convert from semi auto.

6 complete new high energy operation system, short stroke captive piston.

7 adapter for AR15 stocks, carbine or fixed.

8 adapter for AR15 pistol grip, accepts all makes.

9 mag couplers for surefire to 5 rnd and 2 rnd MKA mags.

10 gen 1 mag extensions for MKA 5rnd mag.

11 gen 2 mag extensions for MKA 2rnd mag.

12 Rail mounted shell stop and spacers for coupled mags.

13 H&K style barrel mounted front sight.

14 accessory mag well.

15 accessory bolt lock, trigger finger actuated.

16 anti walk hammer and trigger pins.

17 stainless guide rod.

18 aluminum guide rod.

19 Stainless piston (direct replacement 922r part)

20 extended mag button.

21 extended charging handle.

22 titanium firing pin.

23 direct replacement recoil spring.

24 plus 1.5lb recoil spring.

25 high load mag spring.

26 accessory rails for stock handguards.

27 Billet aluminum complete lower receiver assembly.

28 mid barrel comp.

Not all of these parts are available to the public yet, but all have been prototyped and are ready for full production.

where do you think it will be in a year or so?

The only real issues with the guns at this time are related to the early MKA mags and the mag springs.

Its a learning curve for sure, but it has come far in just a few months.

I dont think the Saiga will just go away....but its nice to have an alternative.

Jim

Where do I sign up for one , or should I ask how long is the waiting list !!!!! Larry

[3-Gun Sweden]

Here's me shooting my Вепрь-12 Молот, or Molot Vepr 12E, tuned by Dirk Frey.

I guess Dirk will be using a similar shotgun in the IPSC World Shoot. Hopefully a winner in Open, but we'll see in Hungary in September.

I haven't timed it but I think reload would be faster than 1.68 secs?

Should be faster now after some more practice.

Short stage. Got some hickups as I was shooting 24 g only.

Edited May 8, 2012 by 3-Gun Sweden

[3-Gun Sweden]

Two more

Untuned Akdal

RnR Saiga

[Deathtrap]

My saiga 12 ran better than my benelli done

[KentG]

Seems like my last un board violating comment has dissapeared. Dont care. I tried to be diplomatic but seems the closer you get to the USSR the more dogmatic it gets. Everyone should shoot what they like and how about we just wait and see what the capitalist market bears.

[Vash1023]

kinda falls under the "shoot what works" catagory, and auto going to open isint exactly cheap...