Inconsistant charges

[Mike_P]

Evening all,

I'm currently having an issue that I don't believe should be an issue and I'm hoping someone can shed a little light on the subject for me.

I'm running a 650 and using the small pistol charge bar with Winchester 231 as my powder. When loading 9mm I typically have it set for ~4.2gr or higher for my 124gr rounds, it's extremely consistant in the charge it throws. Either dead on or +/- .1gr which is acceptable to me. When I reduce my charge swapping over to 147gr projectiles, I try to reduce my charge to approximately 3.7gr.

Now, I've tried going lower to 3.0gr and increasing it to where I need, and going down slowly from 4.2. Both ways I'm getting an inconsistant charge at anything under 4.0gr. I'm aware this is getting pretty low to the point where I may be better off switching to an Extra small charge bar (If I'm reading it right that the extra small is 1-15gr). Does anyone have any experience in the Extra small being more consistant in this case? Or am I just living a pipe dream hoping this will solve the issue?

In both cases of adjustment, I've run 5-10 charges prior to weighing, in order for the powder to set. I've tried searching the issue, and gone ahead with the suggested method of weighing 4 charges and taking the average, as well as measuring each charge for approximately 5-10 drops.

When I set it to 3.7gr, I'm seeing 3.4 to 3.9. I believe that's far too large of a variation for me to load, especially considering how well 231 meters.

I've verified static is not an issue via dryer sheets (Nothing was sticking in the first place) and I'm about to start polishing the drop as instructed in the tips and tricks thread, but if I can bypass doing all this and just solve my issue with a new charge bar, I'd be highly tempted to just place the order.

Any insight on the issue would be greatly appreciated!

Edited March 23, 2012 by Mike_P

[wes777]

Try polishing everything. Once the powder drop gets that low any kind of friction will affect the drop.

[Mike_P]

I've gone ahead and polished most of it except the inside of the hopper, as it was in there quite tight and I didn't want to break it.

My powder is like 85-90% full, tried a few more, again with each station full and it's still giving my similar problems. It's weird, I can get a consistant 3.5gr and a super consistant 4.0+, but at 3.7 this small bar is giving me major issues!

[smoothdraw]

make sure there's no foreign material on the powder measure besides powder (no bullet or anything). Ensure that the powder bar are moving in it's entire length.

I once have this problem. My buddy has been pulling bullets, he tries to return the powder and dropped the bullet there without seeing it. Then my powder charge becomes so erratic. When i tried looking for the culprit, i have a bullet in my powder measure which is blocking the charging of powder bar.

[NicVerAZ]

I used a sanding sponge with high grit to baby smooth the parts. Also make sure there is no tension on the rod. The powder funnel should be slightly clockwise from the base. If you have it counterclockwise, the rod will push too hard on the bar and the little delrin square could even pop out.

I also would recommend a good scale. If you cannot invest in a GOOD electronic scale, use a beam scale.

I shortchanged myself by getting a $30 scale. It is inaccurate, takes forever to turn on and zero. Beam scales are old school and take time to settle, but once you have it at where you want, it's easy to check your charge variations.

Also once your powder funnel is broken in, you will see that it is after all very reliable. +/-.1gr variations are normal for practical and plinking. Even bullseye shooters trust it, and yet they are demanding.

Edited April 4, 2012 by NicVerAZ

[Mike_P]

Thanks for the responses.

Smooth, I've emptied it a few times now and used new powder, there's definitely nothing in there.

Nic, I've already put a few thousands rounds through the press. The powder bars and unit have already been polished per my previous responses. Everything is set up properly.

In regards to the scale, I've got 3. A high performance digital scale from Brians store, a Dillon Terminator beam scale, and an older Hornady I rarely use. Needless to say, having so many scales that I consider to be of high quality I certainly hope they aren't the issue.

I assure you, it's all broken in and I am aware of the .1 grain variations, as that's what I see at slightly increased charges. It's only at lower levels that I'm seeing the variation, which with W231 should NOT be there.

I bumped it back up to 4.2gr which is insanely consistant and started back up with my 124gr Montana Gold RN CMJ and 125gr Precision Bullets coated FP's. Then put it back down to 3.7 and I was able to get it consistant enough to run another 1k of my 147gr and things were fine for a while, went back to the 4.2gr and still great, and yet again upon reducing the charge I'm seeing the variation. So I'm at a loss as it's inconsistant when the variations occur.

[NicVerAZ]

From what I see, charges are inconsistant if you reuse the same case over and over, also if you just changed the amount, or even if you are depriming/resizing/priming a case while loading powder in another, or just loading powder. There can be variations based on the fact that it is simply not the same situation all the time. If you have one case per station, and charging a resized case, the press will deliver consistant charges.

Variations will be +/- .1 and if you verify the powder charge visually each time, you will know if you have too big of a variation.

[Mike_P]

Nic, yes I am aware of the innate variations. Trust me, I've taken all precautions. I make sure all stations are full, I've thrown at a minimum 10 charges that go straight to the hopper prior to measuring any. I know where my powder should be when it comes to eyeing it as this isn't a new load to me. When testing charges, I ensure my cases are newly sized and not expanded so there are no major length variations, I've even gone as far as using matching headstamps to make sure they are as close as possible to the same pieces of brass. I've done the 4 charge and divide and the 10 charges and divide game. I've tried all the little tips and tricks, as well as fixes that have worked on my other 2 presses to resolve the issue if they were ever off slightly.

This isn't a new load I've been working up nor am I just extremely new to using the machine. I've run enough rounds through it to know that there's something up, and my first instinct is that it's related to the charge bar, hence my question regarding the X-small bar. Including the fact that I've run this exact load through it without an issue and only now am I experiencing it.

I can set the charge at 4.2gr and it's nearly perfect, but the second I reduce it again it pops back up. It only occurs when I reduce my load to the lighter side of the small charge bar.

[NicVerAZ]

There is not much more you can do for accuracy, except learning all these tricks and visually check the powder level, which is an efficient method to detect if you have, say, 1 whole grain more or less than what you want. I am sure a trained human eye can detect even a variation of 1/5 of a grain. Reloading is not a speed competition. I like to take the time, now, especially since I had one screwup.

This is as accurate as it goes, for a powder dispenser on a progressive press.

[PC Geek Shooter]

......, hence my question regarding the X-small bar. Including the fact that I've run this exact load through it without an issue and only now am I experiencing it.

I can set the charge at 4.2gr and it's nearly perfect, but the second I reduce it again it pops back up. It only occurs when I reduce my load to the lighter side of the small charge bar.

I assume you already know this by now as you posted this in April '12. Just in case others read this and don't know. The Extra Small (X-Small) Powder Bar is for dropping less than 3 grains of powder. However my Small Powder Bar that came installed with the 9mm package goes down to 2.4 grains, I'm glad I checked it out right away since I was just thinking of going to the lowest at 3.0 grains and be done with it. I would of still checked it, but probably not right away, before I did a live round for sure, but I didn't expect 2.4 grains to be the lowest at all. I'd still like it to go lower though for later, but maybe I can just do this instead of purchasing the X-Small Powder Bar to save some money.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'm getting an inconsistant charge under 4.0gr.

When I set it to 3.7gr, I'm seeing 3.4 to 3.9.

Mike, have you tried firing a 15 shot group at 20 - 25 yards

with those "inconsistent loads"? Be interesting to see if

they group the same as your "more consistent" loads.

If they do, problem solved - just a thought.