PC Geek Shooter

I have a new M&P9 FS 4.25" and I got ISMI #: 11, 13 and 15 recoil springs from SSS. I have a Dillon 650 (well uncle and I together) and have been making notes with Titegroup and seeing how low I can go. With the very low ones I am shooting one at a time and making sure I see a hole, just in case of a squib. At this time I don't feel comfortable going below 2.1 GN of TiteGroup, even though I feel safer using that RCBS Lock-Out Die, this is the lowest I see myself going with TG. I also purchased a Wolff spring (MidwayUSA 153024) for my uncle's S&W 6904 (3.25" or so), but got him the 10# one for the same type model (5904) but it was a little longer (I'll have to cut off a few of the wires). I probably should of gotten a 13# or 14# one to cut to make it more like a true 9# or 10#, since this 10# might turn out to be a 6.5 to 7# when I'm done putting it in his. With this Wolff 10# 4.0" one I got down to 2.1 GN with TiteGroup, I could only go down to 2.7-2.8 GN with the ISMI 11# one for the best reliability, ie. no FTE. So I called up ISMI today and spoke to the owner (nice guy) and asked some questions on their springs. I've been reading here that some people say that the ISMI ones are usually 1.5 to sometimes 2.0 lbs less than similar Wolff ones. Turns out that his springs are a little bit different and he tries to keep it locked up a little longer than say a Wolff spring (which didn't know about before). Which, is really good for the M&P9 FS and 5" models for sure. I know I heard something about P1 and ..... but he explained it good and I got the gist of it. I didn't want to buy Wolff #; 9, 10 springs (made for another model, not the M&P) that were 4.25" and would basically be exactly like the ISMI 11# ones, so I could save time and money not screwing around, well at least keep it to a minimum. So I got around to my main question after I learned that his springs keep the gun in lockup longer, then I knew I wanted to try some of his springs from __another model__ that could work in my M&P9 FS. It turns out that he recommended the G19 15# and I told him I might as well try the 13# as well. He said he was going to be shipping to SSS on Tues so I msg'd SSS and they called back and said they would hopefully get a msg to ISMI in time for them to put in a G19 #: 13 and 15 spring. Granted in my msg I also gave them my invoice number from a few weeks ago so that obviously helped in them knowing that I was serious, since SSS does not have these springs on their website. So I'm hoping this will be the ticket for me. The net effect hopefully will allow me to shoot TiteGroup from 2.1 to 2.3 GN and I'd be very happy. Why??? Because I can. My neck and upper body hurt constantly, so since I have a reloading machine, I might as well use it to do things that will make shooting more fun (less painful). I was just going to get a Wolff 4.5" to 5" model (probably 9mm) and cut the wires, I assumed I'd have to get a higher lb spring, but also didn't want to have to buy 5-10 springs to make it work (still may have to buy a couple others, but I'm on the right path). Also a bonus that the ISMI ones fit the stock guide rod, even though I bought the SSS steel one so I could easily switch out. I might just buy a few factory ones once I figure out 2-3 of my favorite loads, screw the aftermarket springs into the stock guide rod. That way I'll have a mouse fart load, maybe a bunny fart one and then one that I could use the ISMI M&P FS 13# spring while doing minor PF with IDPA and/or USPSA. I've also got the Wolff reduced striker spring and that worked on all the 2.1 GN to 2.8 GN ones I shot last time with Federal primers so I'm happy with that. I also lightly polished the trigger bar. Put in the Apex Competition big sear plunger to take down the weight just a little bit. I then really filed down and polished up the factory sear and firing pin block (Apex calls USB) to what the pdf by Dan Burwell on M&P trigger jobs said. So my sear and firing pin block look very, very similar to the Apex parts, it's a vast improvement. Now I can't wait for that Apex AEK polymer trigger to come out, I have a hard time justifying $75 just for an aluminum trigger. Of course on my previous M&P9L I had the FSS & Trigger, which was beyond great, but this time I wanted to save some money and do some of it myself.

I just bought the Speed Shooter Specialties (SSS) steel guide rod (Non-Captured) ($19 ) and ISMI 3 pack: 11, 13 and 15 lb springs. Actually just received it today on Thurs., ordered it on Tues, 2 days from GA to MN is nice and fast for $6.65 . My MidwayUSA order on Tues still isn't here and I paid $8.90 for SH, the size and weight are almost exactly the same (couple oz. off only), but it should be here on Friday. The 11 and 13 are easy to put on, for me the 15 was very hard. However I could of just bought 3 factory M&P guide rods for $6.36 and then got the ISMI ones and taken out the factory springs and then take off the nut and put it back on to make it permanent. However, I don't have a vise so know idea how I could of done it here, I would of had to go to my uncle's. Also with the ISMI ones since they use the factory standard size, later on if I wanted to I could get the SSS Tungsten guide rod also (don't think I ever will, but wanted the option). Now the Wolff guide rod and springs are NOT the same size as the factory ones or the ISMI ones for the M&P. So you wouldn't be able to do the above. I've heard that Glock springs work in the M&P, even aftermarket guide rods, I assume it's all the 3rd Gen ones though. There might be some other Wolff ones that would fit the factory M&P guide rod, but no clue, I really would like to know though. I think I should of probably just gotten two 11 lb. ones and then one 13 lb one, take the second 11 lb and cut a wire off or two max if it came to that for my reloads. Or from above post maybe a 8,9 lb spring would work in the stock M&P guide rod that's made for another model, that would be the best way to go. I'm talking of doing well under 125 PF though for my normal practice shooting, only reason I'd like it lower than 11 lb, of course I may not need to go lower. The 15 lb. ISMI is too similar to the stock one, of course after shooting my reloads I maybe totally wrong on that. The ISMI seems more stiff than the stock 16 lb. one (M&P9 not even a month old yet and it's been shot 15 rounds to test it out at an IDPA match that I was there to watch for the 1st time). Of course the stock 16 lb one has been in a captured system while the ISMI is fully sprung out to normal, so that must be it. I swear I read that the ISMI ones are closer to 1.5 to 2.0 lbs. less than what they say, I guess the Wolff ones are more spot on. This is what I was searching when I found this topic to see if the ISMI ones are actually 2 lb below, or if I copied and pasted that info wrong, since that's what made me go with the ISMI ones, I'd rather have a 9 lb. one anyways, actually even lower as long as I don't get squib's. Update, I just found the link (#10) to where I got the ISMI is 2 lb. lower on average, numerous people said it. Now I'm thinking I should of just ordered the factory recoil spring assembly and gone to my uncle's and done it that way, especially since doing the research for this post and saw it was $6.36 and not the $10 I originally thought it was. Oh well, I'll leave it as is for now. I'm sure I'll think of something else to get at SSS, G&RTactical or MidwayUSA.... in the next 6 months, not a big deal now.

Well I got a confirmation on the G&R Storm Lake barrels. SL told G&R that they should get them on Oct. 1st. He ordered 100 of the FS regular ones and FS threaded ones (don't know the ratio though). I assume it would take him 3 weeks for sure to get through the 45 (+) orders that he has confirmations for. So __IF__ SL follows through on Oct. 1st, I guess you could say at the end of Oct. to early Nov you could get yours started on if you got on the list very soon. I think he wants you to email him and once they actually come in they'll start taking other orders. I just found out that there is another place that does IDPA and their still going until the end of October. I was told I could still go through the orientation and still shoot this year, which I didn't expect. This has me thinking I should probably just get the M&P9 without the barrel so I can try IDPA for the first time. No way I'd be able to get the new gun with the SL barrel in it in time, let alone make my reloads and be able to test them at least once before I'd make it to the match.

Pat, I cut it with a grinder and it worked. However I did not do as good as a job as I wanted. But it'll do though. If I had the money I'd order a couple more as spares and I'd try another one. Thanks again. Also to Dillon, NICE CS !!!

Good question, no clue. I'd like to know also, I assume he said it for a reason? -- The latest info I have on the Apex Bar-Sto stuff is from Randy on M4C: From M4C: M&P Bar-Sto Barrel from Apex Tactical preview Pic http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81124&page=7 #247 from Randy 08-28-12 Hi all, I am anxiously awaiting the 9mm version production proof barrel. It should arrive here any day now. The .40 barrels are producing some excellent accuracy at the 10-15 yard range. Scott and I took the .40 FS out independently to check function. We both confirmed that with Fed 180 fmj, our off-hand groups were between .5" to .75" for five shots. As soon as I receive the 9mm barrels (and we shoot them for functional reliability) we will do some 25 yard data collection. We are getting closer! -Randy --------------------- So that means in one week to 2 months ?? (: PC Geek Shooter http://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1394002&postcount=105 He also posted on M4C on 09-13-12 that the new Glock Gen3,4 Extractors they are coming out with should be done in a few weeks. So they will be busy with that also. Which can be good or bad, most of the time when your busy you get more things done. Assuming family things don't get in the way. ---- ps sorry, the formatting on this site is driving me nuts for the last month (only site have problems with, I sign into like 10-15 different ones a month). I can't do links with text or set to Bold... most of the time, it goes back and forth to working to showing just like text then just a little better than just text or perfect. Never know what you'll get.

Since I wanted a bullet feeder and I know I really, really wanted that RCBS Lock-Out Die, my only option was a 5 station press. Glad I got the 650, since the Lock-Out Die was my main consideration. I'm still planning on looking at the case each time, but I know there's going to be a time when I don't and then at least the Lock-Out Die will be there to hopefully save me. Of course to do that it has to work correctly and I had to set it up correctly. However with using Titegroup or other fast powders you still run a risk of using x more grains and still could get a KB if you are already in the high end of the spectrum to begin with. Luckily I won't be in the high end ever, however I plan on going very low (under minor PF), so a squib would be my main concern if I miss a case and the Lock-Out Die fails. Would be nice if they could eventually come out with a micrometered type Lock-Out Die, like within .2 or .3 grains under and above. Haven't fully tested or read how low or high the Lock-Out Die is set to.

Still haven't gotten an email from GandRTactical. I think I've read there are at least 3 different people with test barrels out there (on M4C and MP-Pistol), let alone the ones he has on hand. I also just read that Storm Lake had a machine go down in early Sept. or maybe end of Aug(?), so who knows how long it took them to get it fixed or replaced, so their a little behind. His original email to me about Sept. 15th was Sept. 4th or so, so don't know if that was right before the machine went down at SL or not, hopefully it broke down before so that they're still on schedule. For all I know they might of already got them in and doing orders for the pre-paid people (I wasn't one of them though). However, this is a good read from 10-8 Performance on 06-24-12: S&W M&P Barrels, An Informal Test Excerpt: Stock gun with no mods, 2012 production. ... It removes the various stress risers ahead of the chamber area, tightens lockup, and brings in a new twist rate... it shot a 2.5” 10 shot group at 25 yards off a rest using Atlanta Arms 115gr match ammo. It shot a 3” group with 147gr ammo, also off a rest.

I agree with FightFireJay. One of the reasons GandRTactical and others I assume, state on top of their site that mfg's don't tell them when they will get OOS items. In regards to the Shield; that doesn't mean that some dealers don't have a close friend that is close to the supply chain or that they won't run into someone who would know that at some point at some show. But that would be very rare for most guns, let alone ones that are in high demand like that.

Thanks for the pic Pat. For others, the only change from Pat's post would be that your Small Powder Bar might be an all metal silver color.

I agree on the manual. The Dillon XL 650 manual is great, I'm referring to it a lot. The Hornady LNL AP manual is very bad compared to the 650's. Didn't get the video though. I have downloaded a number of YouTube videos on the 650 and other things like the RCBS Lock-Out Die...

I know people have been talking about the early unlocking issues on the M&P9 FS and 5". Main reason I got rid of my M&P9L. I know Randy from Apex was working on a new locking block to have a cheaper alternative than purchasing the Apex/Bar-Sto barrels. Anyone hear anymore news on this? Last update I read on M4C was like 4-6 months ago and haven't been paying attention as I am planning on doing the custom fitted Storm Lake barrel from Grant and G&RTactical. Also spending 90% of free time learning more on reloading. Also like the talk on your reloads. Someone made a comment that there will probably be a new topic about the M&P9's accuracy in a week or so, so let's keep this thread updated and it'll always be on page 1 or top of page 2 and we won't have to worry about that

PC - I'm confused by your comment - are you weighing your powder charges in the brass casing? If so, you'll get a different reading with every round and you won't have an accurate weight for the powder charge. You should dump the powder out of the casing into the pan that came with your scale - after you zero the scale with the pan on it. That way you're only measuring the powder weight, not the brass and primer. I hope this helps. Tom I would of used the pan, but I never saw it in the box I got with my Hornady LNL Bench scale. Turns out I just didn't look hard enough, I just found it now. Looking at the box picture it appears that it'd be 3 times bigger. It's more fun the other way anyways I could just delete my post, so I don't look so stupid, but I'll leave it to make others look smarter.

Anyone get much smaller than 3.0 grains with the regular Small Powder Bar? I turned mine to the lowest and I got 2.4 grains to 2.5 grains consistently. Thanks.

I must say, the UniqueTek Micrometer Powder Bar Kit seems to be the coolest, however at $60 I think I like that eBay one better. The Mr. Dial is cool too, however if you look close there are 3 bars in between, for instance going from 3 to 4. With the eBay one, you at least have 4 bars in between which then you could write down 3.2, 3.6 more easily. Of course having 9 bars in between would be the best. Very minor, but still I like the eBay one the best. If I didn't need to hesitate on the money thing, I'd 100% get the UniqueTek for sure, even if only loading for one caliber.

I assume you already know this by now as you posted this in April '12. Just in case others read this and don't know. The Extra Small (X-Small) Powder Bar is for dropping less than 3 grains of powder. However my Small Powder Bar that came installed with the 9mm package goes down to 2.4 grains, I'm glad I checked it out right away since I was just thinking of going to the lowest at 3.0 grains and be done with it. I would of still checked it, but probably not right away, before I did a live round for sure, but I didn't expect 2.4 grains to be the lowest at all. I'd still like it to go lower though for later, but maybe I can just do this instead of purchasing the X-Small Powder Bar to save some money.

I decided to use some oil and 1000 grit for a very short time and then I followed up with 1500 and 2000 grit on the two powder bar metal pieces (regular small one). Nice and smooth now, of course I really degreased them. I am using numerous cases, it's 7 that I know of right now. Since I just got my press I have weighed 1-3 from each brand to just test the powder measure outputs. I am using Federal primers for all of them but I was amazed how different the weights were with just the primers in them. One Blazer was 63.8, CBC was 61.5 to 61.7, Federal was 63.9 to 64.4, S&B was 61.9 to 62.2 and Win was 60.8, I flared them and adjusted the weights so many times I will have to throw these away once I am done fine tuning to the grains I want. Primer pocket and the insides are very clean (or so I thought), not perfect but good. So after this I'm going to have to go through my brass and separate by make at least for the first 100 or so since I want to stop and test every 10 rounds in the beginning once I settled on the grains I want to use. I for sure will use the advice to not even weigh the first 10 and put them back in the hopper and then measure the next 5 (of the same make). Those 5 that I will measure I will write down the exact weights of each and make sure I know exactly which one I am using to start with, since some might be off by 0.2 from each other. Once I really know more and feel more comfortable I can just do averages. Of course having the RCBS Lock-Out Die does give me more piece of mind.

So far I am liking my new 650. A total of 2 live rounds, for some reason I decided to wait until I get my 9mm handgun before I do more, crazy I know. I've seated like 30 with primers and bullets to get the hang of it though (no powder). I had the bullets not drop down anymore, but was an easy fix with the allen wrench. Then I had the station 1 locator come flying out somehow, that freaked me out a little bit, thought I broke something, tons of red grease on those. Overall this is much better than the Hornady LNL AP, well since the two that I got were defective from the factory in station 1 to begin with. Wasted so much time on those. The first night I got the 650, it worked right away, no problems. One thing is that with the small powder bar I can get mine to go to 2.4 grains, not the 3.0 grains. Planning on researching this tonight to see if it's a problem, don't know why it would be, but who knows. I'd rather have it go down below that so I don't have to get the extra small powder bar, but 2.4 is nice though. I somehow also broke the large powder bar bolt right away.

Well I heard from Grant at GandR Tactical that they should have it sorted out by Sept 15th, in a few days. Unless he's working on Sat., which he might be because of how many people are interested. I think it'd be safer to say by next week they'll have them in. I'm planning on getting the M&P9 FS and the Storm Lake custom fitted option, decided to wait until these came out. However, who knows how many people are ahead of me and how long the wait will be. Since I just started reloading, a whole two full live rounds to get the feel for the 650, a lot I know (no point in more without the gun to go with it). Done numerous with no powder though, probably just end up throwing away the bullets if I damage them too much by pulling them (can't get that damn Hornady bullet puller die to work maybe since .356 bullets). I guess if it'll be a fair amount of time, I might just order the 9mm as is and take a chance to see how mine shoots. A better decision might be if it's well over a month until my turn for the custom fitted barrel, since I already have 3 M&P9 mags, maybe I'll just get the M&P40 FS and get a 9mm conversion barrel for it instead. Spending the same amount of money for the barrel, or close, won't be as accurate but will be close enough hopefully. I just will never shoot the 40 with regular factory ammo though, will have to be sub minor to minor PF loads though.

I agree the Dillon 550 and the Hornady LNL AP aren't even close to being in the same league. The 550 is a 4 Station manual press, the LNL AP is a 5 Station. You can __ONLY__ compare the LNL AP to the Dillon XL 650. Granted I ended up returning my Hornady LNL AP to Cabela's for the second and final time and then bought a Dillon XL 650. If there wasn't a Dillon 650 or RCBS 2000 Pro with 5 stations and only a Dillon 550 with 4 stations, I'd rather return a Hornady LNL AP 5 times than have a 4 station manual index press. Everyone is different though. Of course, after I got this 2nd one I would of just shipped it back to Hornady and gotten a good one if there wasn't the 650. I know I just had really bad luck. Like I said that gun store who also sells them wouldn't even sell me anything else for it as he knew it was faulty from the mfg. I also went back to Cabela's and tried out another die set after talking to someone in the reloading section, as I just couldn't image getting two defects in a row from a highly regarded press. He said that it also sounded defective, but thought I might as well try out the new dies. I always planned on using all 5 stations, so a 4 would not work for me no matter what. Well unless I had a rifle and only shot like 50-100 rounds a year and wanted the absolute best accuracy out to x, with the least amount of recoil. I am planning on using Station; #1: Deprimming and sizing die #2: Dillon Powder Measure and expander #3: RCBS Lock-Out Die #4: Hornady Bullet Feeder Die #5: Seater and Crimping Die Only because of money, I won't be getting the Dillon Electronic Case Feeder ($208 with 5% off at local place). Later down the line planning on buying it though. If your planning on getting a case feeder with the LNL AP then the Dillon 650 costs exactly the same. You don't need a shell plate with the 650 as it can already come with one in the caliber that you choose (I got the 9mm factory packaged one). $538 with 9mm from factory plus tax. It also says that; [if you ordered your XL 650 for a specific caliber, it comes factory adjusted for that caliber (minus dies) with the appropriate "caliber specific" parts included. In fact, a Dillon technician runs casings and primers through the machine to check its function.] The Dillon 650 already comes with that case tube that you see in the pictures so you can manually load them in. There is no way on the LNL AP that you could do that, so that is a bonus for the Dillon 650 at least. I might look into some PVC tubing or similar and have some cases ready to go. I also plan on getting some tubes (like was planning on getting for the LNL AP) to go over the Hornady Bullet Feeder Die and manually set them in there. I'll buy extra ones and drill a hole and then put a pin on the bottom so I can just pull it out when I want to manually load some more bullets. Personally I think all progressive auto indexing presses should be 6 station ones, I mean the Dillon 1050 is a 8 station, they must have that many for a reason. I think the Dillon Square Deal and 550B should have 5 stations, 4 stations I just don't get if it's going to be your only press. They have their uses for 2nd and 3rd presses I'd say though. Since those two do have 4 stations I think they should be at least $100 to $130 less than they are. Where the LNL AP shines is if you change calibers, there is no way around it, the Dillon caliber changes are more expensive, even if you use the same tool head and just get the XL Caliber Conversion Kits (MSRP for $77.95). Even after my 2 defective Hornady LNL AP presses, I'd still recommend it. Why, because the positives are very good, their CS is also very good, I just didn't want to wait 2-3 weeks to send it in (on their dime) and get a working one back. I've waited and fooled around enough, just want to get to it. I really like how open the space is between the dies, like someone said, the Dillon is more cramped. The Die Bushing system is a very, very good idea. However I did notice that when you use it the die bushing moves up just a little bit (barely noticeable but it does it) so I guess if your going for professional rifle competition out to 500 yards or more I assume that might make a difference then? I wanted to say that I paid cash for the LNL AP at Cabela's and they gave me cash back on the spot, most places you have to wait 2-3 weeks for a check if the amount is over $300, so that was very nice. I forgot, I purchased that PowderFunnels Universal expander for the LNL AP, so if anyone wants that, PM me.

I was wondering what you mean by occasional? As I had to return my first LNL AP 6 days ago, I couldn't get past the first station with a RCBS carbide die. I could go 3 rounds in a row with the case catching on the back side of the die and stopping the press. That first one was very, very bad, left to right pawl's were fine though. I tried numerous die bushings (bought separate 2 pack also) and tried at least 2 of the included shell plate springs. Sometimes I’d have to manually move the shell plate as it wouldn’t click into the right place, once every 25 times or so. After 3-4 days searching on the internet and reading and watching more videos I finally called Hornady and they said to return it to Cabela's. I did and got a new one which was much better. I got to 36 without hitting the back side of the die, the left and right pawl's were perfect from the factory this time. Then I started to not get past 15 to 25 before it would happen, and it could then happen once and then two later the same thing. The shell plate moved perfectly this time, never had to manually put it in place. Took my LNL press to a store yesterday called Gun Stop in Minnetonka, MN where they have like 2-10 times as many reloading items as Cabela's has and they really know their stuff. They also sell the Hornady LNL AP and the accessories and he said that he wouldn't sell me another die set because they'll do the same thing since the press is out of spec in that first station. He said to return that one. In the first press, I tried the other stations with the other dies and they seemed to line up just fine. Although I didn't put primer tubes or the powder feeder stuff in, just wanted to see if the cases hit the side of the walls and stopped the press like #1 station did. I was still wondering if you think I should just go up to Cabela's and try getting another die set, since this second one was soooo much better than the first. I know that that gun store on Sat. is super knowledgeable and all, just the probability of me getting two in a row that are lemons for the exact same thing after all the rave reviews has me perplexed. But honestly I'm a little pissed at Hornady, however CS has been great. I know they were OOS at MidwayUSA, Cabela's and other places that I checked for over 6 mo's and wondering now if to catch up if they made someone else make them in China or something and quality control went way, way down. This LNL AP isn’t really that complicated, one of the main reasons I went with it over the others, I thought better bang for your buck. I started really researching in December 2011 off and on until late June when I bought everything. Only could set it up and start working on it like 10 days ago though. Now I’m looking at the Dillon XL 650, which I researched a little bit off and on for months before I got the LNL. The Dillon seems to have a lot more parts and much more cumbersome to change out dies. I did get to use the 650 at that Gun Stop store and it felt way different from the LNL, no case grabbing at all. However, I really like the idea of the die bushing system on the Hornady LNL AP since if I have to pull a bunch of bullets when I screwed up it’d be easy to take out one of the dies and very quickly use the Hornady Cam-Lock Bullet Puller. Let alone switching to another caliber, which I won’t be doing right away but next year hopefully I will. With the LNL AP shell plate and the die bushings it just seems like a better system. Especially after watching many Youtube vids on the Dillon 650 for changing calibers and numerous other things. But then again if you get two duds in a row then something is seriously flawed. Hell if I had the money I’d just go buy the Dillon 650 and let Hornady take back the LNL AP and give me a working one in 2-3 weeks. Then I’d compare both of them side by side and post my results after using them over a few months, but money wise, not going to happen. I'd like to know the people that have bought new LNL AP's, or relatively new, if you could state in what month you got them. I thought they were all made in the USA, but now I don't think so. If I had two in a row as factory defects, then there must be a lot people that have them also for the ones made in the last 3 months or so. Maybe they caught that their tooling was off and only spit out 25 to 50 that were really really bad, but if they did more than that then you'd think they'd have more people talking about it. This really interests me, somehow I missed reading about this while I was researching the Dillon compared to the LNL. I know someone said that Hornady as much admitted to it. Would like some other comments from others that have first hand knowledge of using the LNL AP and the 650, or the 550. I have constant neck, shoulder and hand problems so even doing the LNL with the one station gets to me. I know it's going to hurt having all 5 stations doing something, but it's really the only way I'll continue to shoot since I plan on making the most wussy 9mm rounds I can (sub minor). Eventually want to get a .223 and others but those will be in limited quantities, but again making the wussy rounds will allow me to shoot them and not take so many days to recover like I do now just for shooting 9mm, or even too many 22lr rounds (from holding handgun up).

Fully agree, that's why the topic title caught my attention. Let's hope there will be a REAL title of "America's gun" in 5-10 years talking about the M&P handguns and or AR's as real American guns taking off and being used by a lot more LEO's, military personnel and civilian here. Granted most LEO's would use the M&P40, I still think S&W really, really needs to address the M&P 9's accuracy. Also making the trigger a little better can't hurt them either, talking about long trigger pull, not the reset which I don't think really matters if your shooting to save your life. Full disclosure, I owned a G23C and loved the trigger with the 3.5 lb connector though. Owned a M&P9L and planning on replacing it with a M&P40 and get a 9mm conversion barrel for it to fix the accuracy issue.

Mini-Series: Band of Brothers Going to have to watch that again sometime this year. Jesse Stone (if it qualifies) Just watched all of them within a week or so last year. I usualy like major action, but it's nice to have a slow moving show now and again (well I guess since I watched them all within a week my comment doesn't hold water, but you get the idea). Firefly was awesome also, but too short, technically I guess it really was a mini-series really. TV: Battlestar Galactica (new version) The Shield Stargate Series (ALL) Dexter Spartacus (only seen the 2 seasons, watching 3rd soon though) Love action, but they do NOT need to do the over the top blood though. It could use __A LOT__ more nudity and sex though j/k Jericho was very good IIRC, but it's been awhile since seen it so don't remember if it'd knock any others out. Also The Walking Dead could take one of above, but haven't seen S02 yet, maybe next week I'll watch it. I hear Tudors is good and also Deadwood, I have them on my wishlist for this summer or this coming winter. I have Rome but haven't seen it yet (heard good things), now posting this will watch within the next 2 months or so. Also Person of Interest seems to be very good, watched first two and wanted to watch all in a row so waited for season to end and waiting for BR to come out. Honorable Mentions currently watching or haven't seen the last season or final season (if applicable ?): Sons of Anarchy Justitfied Californication Weeds Mad Men Like it since watch too many action ones, nice break sometimes and it's been very good. Know a woman who lived it decades ago (IIRC in NYC) and she said it's very accurate. Breaking Bad NCIS, NCIS LA Blue Bloods only seen first season, but liked it. The Walking Dead Haven't seen S02 yet though, but I assume it's awesome and different. Game of Thrones Only seen S01 so far. Thanks Griz, looking into Brotherhood tonight or this weekend.

Thanks for the info. The guy I just sold my M&P9L to does 3 Gun with his friend. IIRC they do it or practice at Oakdale gun club in MN, which a friend wants to go to anyways (June 2nd it's open to the public), looks to be the best range in a 45 mile area. This is also where they do USPSA, which I've been meaning to check out also.

Thanks so much. Hopefully start watching tonight !!