Setting up 1911 for single stack

[kcinnick]

I have an MC operator that I received in a trade, and I would like to set it up for single stack. I know I will have concerns with weight, and concerns getting a kydex holster, but I wanted to know what changes I could make to improve the pistol for USPSA. I recently shot my first match, and I did good with getting points, but my time sucked, so I came in 86th out of 92 shooters, with a 19% score in single stack, 17% overall. I had no problem getting points, except for one course I missed 5 shots, all shooting from the left of a barricade and my time sucked. I was shooting my STI trojan in 9mm, and I had a lot of targets with double alpha's, and I only had to shot one steel twice to get it to fall out of 6 classifiers. If you throw out my 3% on the stage I missed 5 shots taking bad advice shooting from the left side of a barricade to improve my time. Also, my times sucked, it was my first match. A lot of my points where within a few points of the guys scoring 100%, but my time would be double or more and my hit factor would suck.

Anyway, I want to try my MC operator at a match to see how I like it. It already has after market grips that are provide a good grip and have a cut out for reaching the mag release. I am not sure what the brand of grips are but they feel nice and grippy.

I was told to change the springs, but I am not sure where to start. I assume this is something I could do myself, but I would love recommendation for spring rates and which ones to change. The trigger is also on the heavy side at 5 -5.5 lbs, not much of a problem, but I would like it lighter. Also, the reset is a little longer than my STI, but I would like to reduce if it is something I can do. The weight of the gun makes the .45 round fairly manageable, (No where near as nice as my 9mm STI) but I would like to come up with a round that will reduce recoil as much as possible. I keep WIN231 on hand as my pistol powder, I was hoping there was a recipe that I could use to help keep the recoil to a minimum.

It currently has night sights, but I want a front fiber optic and probably rear adjustable notch with a medium to wide notch.

I was also wanting to get an ambi mag release with larger buttons to make mag drops easier. I didn't have trouble putting a new mag in the magazine, I think it was due to a technique I uses from an experience member of lining my finger up with the mag as I took it out the pouch.

I run trip magazine since I am a dealer for them, the are VERY nice magazines, but I am open to suggestions to any other ways to improve my pistol. My other option is purchasing an STI ready to go...

Thanks,

Nick Ferrara

www.ferraraleather.com

I

[Merlin Orr]

Hey Nick... You have a fine pistol already. The short answer is to send the gun to a good gunsmith and have everything you need to bring it up to true competition levels done at one time. If you want to do it piecemeal you could perhaps do some of the work yourself..... Change the recoil spring to a 16# and the mainspring to a 17# is what "I" would do.

The sights would be better for competition if you had a standard adjustable rear and a fiber optic (or plain serrated black) front.

I would suggest you shoot a couple of more matches and do a little looking at other peoples setups prior to making any moves.

(By the way - NICE belts.....)

[gdboytyler]

I think watching Matt Burkett's "Practical Shooting Handgun Techniques V. 1-3" will help a lot more with your score than any upgrades you make to your gun.

[wes777]

1st match?! Shoot more. Lots more.

[polizei1]

I hate to be "the one" but I would seriously consider sticking with the trojan for at least another couple of matches. IMO, the MC is going to cost quite a bit just to try...I'd rather spend the money in ammo.

[lumpygravy]

Since you're asking about the gun and because this is a new to you gun, I'd suggest shooting it a little more to:

1. ensure that it functions 100% - or very close to 100% before changing things
   
2. get comfortable with the mechanics of operating the gun i.e. reloads, clearing malfs, etc...
   
3. get your load chrono'd and changed if you don't make your desired power factor
   

Also as already mentioned, shooting more will get you to the range so that you can check out what others have done to their guns and whether or not they liked specific changes. Ask questions and most will be happy not just to answer, but to let you handle and shoot their guns.

In general my priority for work:

1. good sights and a trigger job
   
2. any reliability work that might be required
   
3. other stuff for ease of use i.e. ambi thumb safety or mag release, undercut trigger guard, etc...
   
4. swapping springs for feel
   
5. cosmetics
   

If you've only shot the one match, I wouldn't be too concerned about your relative finish as compared to experienced shooters. IMO, this game is about having fun safely. To become proficient, you'll have to practice and develop skills that you don't currently have. As your skillset progresses, you will also see improvement in your match finishes. If you're getting the points, make every effort to maintain that accuracy. The speed will come.

However, the equipment part is important too. So asking about your gear and figuring out what you want done is just as important as building your skills with that gun.

Good luck!

[kcinnick]

Since you're asking about the gun and because this is a new to you gun, I'd suggest shooting it a little more to:

1. ensure that it functions 100% - or very close to 100% before changing things
   
2. get comfortable with the mechanics of operating the gun i.e. reloads, clearing malfs, etc...
   
3. get your load chrono'd and changed if you don't make your desired power factor
   

Also as already mentioned, shooting more will get you to the range so that you can check out what others have done to their guns and whether or not they liked specific changes. Ask questions and most will be happy not just to answer, but to let you handle and shoot their guns.

In general my priority for work:

1. good sights and a trigger job
   
2. any reliability work that might be required
   
3. other stuff for ease of use i.e. ambi thumb safety or mag release, undercut trigger guard, etc...
   
4. swapping springs for feel
   
5. cosmetics
   

If you've only shot the one match, I wouldn't be too concerned about your relative finish as compared to experienced shooters. IMO, this game is about having fun safely. To become proficient, you'll have to practice and develop skills that you don't currently have. As your skillset progresses, you will also see improvement in your match finishes. If you're getting the points, make every effort to maintain that accuracy. The speed will come.

However, the equipment part is important too. So asking about your gear and figuring out what you want done is just as important as building your skills with that gun.

Good luck!

First sanctioned match. I use to shoot the practices all the time, but always with a plastic pistol. I am sponsoring the Gator Classic/Area 4 championship so I joined the local club and shot the local match. I used the Trojan because it was already set up for single stack, but if I didn't shoot double alpha, I lost a lot of points (I shot a lot of double alpha, just took to long doing it). The MC operator functions flawlessly. Even with crappy magazines. I am going to get a full set of Tripp Research magazines since I am a dealer for them, I just don't know much about the 1911 platform. I know I want the trigger pull a little lighter, and the reset a little shorter, but I thought that was something I could do myself. I also want to change the springs and sights. I am not sure if that is something I can do myself, I have a dovetail pusher tool, and well I have all kinds of presses designed for leather work that could be adapted to push sights out slowly and evenly. I really want a fiber front sight and either a plain black rear sight, or the serrated sight like on my STI. I shoot a couple thousand rounds a month, and the only course I really flopped was a classifier called "Lefties Revenge", I listened to some more experienced shooters and shot from the left side of the barricade and had 4 misses from that one position, should have shot from the right side.

I shot 3 hours with a certified instructor that is a pretty good USPSA shooter for 4 hours the day before the match getting use to shooting a 1911. I was so use to shooting M&P's and XDM's that it was weird at first to 1. have a safety 2. have my thumb ride on top of the safety.

Cost isn't an object. I just don't want to send the pistol off. So if changing the springs, adjusting the reset, probably changing the mainspring housing, and adding a small magazine well, changing the sights and adding a set of tripp research magazines will get me going by time the next match comes around (Probably hit the one in Amite, Louisiana on April 15th) I want to try out the operator. I am ordering the dies, conversion , etc. for my 650 on the 1st, only reason I am waiting is I am grouping an order and waiting on a buddy that needs to some cash to go in on some primers and powder.

Thanks,

Nick

Oh, and thanks about the comment on the belts, its fun to make that kind of stuff, and people pay me to do it!

[lumpygravy]

All righty then! It sounds like the minimums are handled so get to the fun stuff!

You definitley sound like a do-it-yourselfer so I'd suggest reading up on the 1911 platform and all of the mechanics of how it works, getting to know all of the parts and at a minimum, learning how to fully disassemble the gun down to individual component parts. There are a number of books and online resources. The Jerry Kuhnhausen book is often mentioned and a good one to have.

Sights:

Best if you you have a sight pusher tool, but sights can be drifted in/out with either brass or nylon punches as long as you are replacing with the same sight cut profile.

Trigger work:

You can drop some weight from your trigger pull by altering the tension on two legs of your sear spring. If you don't have one, get a trigger pull scale and then read the Brownells/Jack Weigand article on the 2lb trigger pull here. There is probably a limit to what you can do with the existing hammer and sear and if you decide to swap these out, you may need stones and jigs designed for prepping these parts.

If you do any trigger work you must perform all of the required safety checks.

Recoil springs:

You'll find that recoil springs are easy to swap out if you can disassemble the gun. You might want to purchase several springs in a range or maybe a calibration kit which unusally includes a half dozen or so springs in a sequence of weights. Wolff has these individually or in the kits in either conventional or variable coil flavors.

Hammer/Main spring:

Ditto here. If you can disassemble the gun, you can easily swap this part. I don't remember what factory is anymore, but a lot of folks are using 17lb springs. My limited gun is 17lb with a coil removed. What this means is that you can do some experimentation to find out what you like. Playing with this spring is related to the trigger work mentioned above so the safety checks apply here as well.

One "feel" modification to consider along with those listed above is grinding a radius on the bottom of the firing pin stop. IIRC having the radius allows the gun to unlock with a smoother feel vs. a squared bottom or something along those lines. I just know that all of my stops have this radius.

Now git'er done!!!

[kcinnick]

All righty then! It sounds like the minimums are handled so get to the fun stuff!

You definitley sound like a do-it-yourselfer so I'd suggest reading up on the 1911 platform and all of the mechanics of how it works, getting to know all of the parts and at a minimum, learning how to fully disassemble the gun down to individual component parts. There are a number of books and online resources. The Jerry Kuhnhausen book is often mentioned and a good one to have.

Sights:

Best if you you have a sight pusher tool, but sights can be drifted in/out with either brass or nylon punches as long as you are replacing with the same sight cut profile.

Trigger work:

You can drop some weight from your trigger pull by altering the tension on two legs of your sear spring. If you don't have one, get a trigger pull scale and then read the Brownells/Jack Weigand article on the 2lb trigger pull here. There is probably a limit to what you can do with the existing hammer and sear and if you decide to swap these out, you may need stones and jigs designed for prepping these parts.

If you do any trigger work you must perform all of the required safety checks.

Recoil springs:

You'll find that recoil springs are easy to swap out if you can disassemble the gun. You might want to purchase several springs in a range or maybe a calibration kit which unusally includes a half dozen or so springs in a sequence of weights. Wolff has these individually or in the kits in either conventional or variable coil flavors.

Hammer/Main spring:

Ditto here. If you can disassemble the gun, you can easily swap this part. I don't remember what factory is anymore, but a lot of folks are using 17lb springs. My limited gun is 17lb with a coil removed. What this means is that you can do some experimentation to find out what you like. Playing with this spring is related to the trigger work mentioned above so the safety checks apply here as well.

One "feel" modification to consider along with those listed above is grinding a radius on the bottom of the firing pin stop. IIRC having the radius allows the gun to unlock with a smoother feel vs. a squared bottom or something along those lines. I just know that all of my stops have this radius.

Now git'er done!!!

I couldn't find out what was stock for the springs , is there anyway to tell. I can take the gun apart and put it back together, that's no problem (I had to get someone to show me how to take apart the STI, dang guide rod, I guess that is why the put instructions in the box. I probably wouldn't have picked either of these pistols if I was buying new, but since I was trading, I got some really good deals. I just wanted to convert some of my rifles to NICE pistols for holster pictures when needed. MC shoots NICE for a .45, but needs some work to make her run like the STI. I wonder if there is a market for some really bright trijicon night sights.

[lumpygravy]

I couldn't find out what was stock for the springs , is there anyway to tell. I can take the gun apart and put it back together, that's no problem (I had to get someone to show me how to take apart the STI, dang guide rod, I guess that is why the put instructions in the box. I probably wouldn't have picked either of these pistols if I was buying new, but since I was trading, I got some really good deals. I just wanted to convert some of my rifles to NICE pistols for holster pictures when needed. MC shoots NICE for a .45, but needs some work to make her run like the STI. I wonder if there is a market for some really bright trijicon night sights.

Sometimes, if asked, the manufacturer will provide that information. It may not matter if you're intent on swapping them out anyway. Wolff notes "factory" (Colt) spring weights on their website.

I think Merlin had suggested spring weights in an earlier reply. I running a 14lb variable recoil spring in my SS gun. I don't remember what mainspring but it's probably a 17lb uncut.

BTW, who is "MC"?

[kcinnick]

I couldn't find out what was stock for the springs , is there anyway to tell. I can take the gun apart and put it back together, that's no problem (I had to get someone to show me how to take apart the STI, dang guide rod, I guess that is why the put instructions in the box. I probably wouldn't have picked either of these pistols if I was buying new, but since I was trading, I got some really good deals. I just wanted to convert some of my rifles to NICE pistols for holster pictures when needed. MC shoots NICE for a .45, but needs some work to make her run like the STI. I wonder if there is a market for some really bright trijicon night sights.

Sometimes, if asked, the manufacturer will provide that information. It may not matter if you're intent on swapping them out anyway. Wolff notes "factory" (Colt) spring weights on their website.

I think Merlin had suggested spring weights in an earlier reply. I running a 14lb variable recoil spring in my SS gun. I don't remember what mainspring but it's probably a 17lb uncut.

BTW, who is "MC"?

The full name of the pistol is "Loaded Full-Size MC Operator". I just used MC for short.

[superdude]

I keep WIN231 on hand as my pistol powder, I was hoping there was a recipe that I could use to help keep the recoil to a minimum.

the usual solution for a soft shooting load is a fast gunpowder and a heavy bullet. a key point is finding a gunpowder that uses less charge weight for the same velocity. check a loading manual for charge weights as your best guide.

[kcinnick]

I keep WIN231 on hand as my pistol powder, I was hoping there was a recipe that I could use to help keep the recoil to a minimum.

the usual solution for a soft shooting load is a fast gunpowder and a heavy bullet. a key point is finding a gunpowder that uses less charge weight for the same velocity. check a loading manual for charge weights as your best guide.

Guess I need to ditch the 231....