MarkCO Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 We also shot this one on Saturday. It is freestyle, but encourages you to shoot 6 weak hand and 6 strong hand with the requisite freestyle in between. One shooter thought it was too hard and told me it was the kind of stage he expected to see at Nationals, but it was too hard for a local match. To the drawing, during set-up, I added two fault lines to place the right and left wall inside the shooting area so as to not have any issues due to 10.2.1. Basically allowing the shooter to contact the wall while engaging the left and right target arrays. One Handed.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The stage, while challenging, does not seem all that hard to me. I would expect to see that at a local match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Seems perfectly legal by 1.1.5.5. The stage is a more "technical" stage rather than a hoser stage. My club has been fortunate to always come up with a nice blend of technical and hoser stages each month (except for our planned hose fest towards the end of the year) with our potluck style of letting people volunteer to take a bay and we let them loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunchies95 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The stage looks fun and legal, I wouldn't mind shooting this at any level. In my opinion, the only difference between a National Level stage and Club Level should be the quality of the stage design. Simply put, the really good stages require a significant amount of time to set-up correctly. I would prefer to shoot local clubs that put on stages that test all shooting skills, rather than a hose fest every stage, every match. It will better prepare the shooters planning to attend majors, and force everyone as a whole to be more well rounded shooters. I'm just starting to design stages for my local club, and my philosophy is to design them around my weaknesses. Chances are, if I am not the good at them, others will be in the same boat. Designing the stage may give me the unfair advantage of being able to practice that specific skill before the match; but since I have already identified it as a weakness to practice, I consider it a mute point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Were the walls considered to go to the ground? Also, I had thought of doing something similar but wondered about the 180. If the shooter stays inside the shooting area and reaches around the wall, did you find it an issue? As far as unfair advantage when designing stages, since I design most of the stages for our matches I don't have time to practice Actually, I find that when I hand the WSB to someone to put up the stage, by the time they get it to fit the bay and everything to work it is not exactly as I envisioned. That is fine though, as long as it matches the spirit of the stage and is legal. Also, with running the match I find I am usually not getting a chance to do the full walk through and am running back to shoot right after dealing with other issues. Needless to say, I don't do my best shooting at the matches I am MD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunchies95 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Were the walls considered to go to the ground? Also, I had thought of doing something similar but wondered about the 180. If the shooter stays inside the shooting area and reaches around the wall, did you find it an issue? 2.2.3.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, all suchbarriers, walls, vision barriers and snow fence barriers will be considered to go from the ground to the height as constructed. I shot a stage where you had to reach around the wall like this stage, only the wall was along the 180 line and the fault line angled inwards at a fairly sharp angle. If you shot it left handed, there was no danger, but if freestyle, a big 180 trap. As an RO, it was impossible to determine if the 180 got broken as the shooters body was in the way. Watching the videos of my squad afterwards, it looked like more than one broke the 180. After shooting that stage, I think in my future designs, I will angle the wall a bit so the the danger of breaking the 180 is reduced. On this stage, backing the rear fault line up a few inches may help solve potential 180 issues, but then may not force one handed shooting as much. I still think it is a good stage, just care must be taken when setting it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Walls were considered to go fully to the ground and up to infinity. If the fault line was moved back, it would have allowed two handed shooting, which I did not want. The trick is to let the shooters who are inexpereinced know that they can step out of the shooting area when they are not actually shooting. I also kept the walls IN the shooting area so they could be touched witht he other hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Not sure I like a stage design that tries to force the shooter to do something, like shooting weak or strong handed. I think it's better to give the shooter options and let them decide the best course of action. As an example I might shoot the left side of your stage weak hand freestyle as opposed to my normal strong hand freestyle. Edited March 28, 2012 by jdphotoguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I like it. Have to see it set up, though to see how tight I would need to bring the targets in to force one handed shooting. Mind if we borrow it and give it a try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 One shooter thought it was too hard and told me it was the kind of stage he expected to see at Nationals, but it was too hard for a local match. I don't understand what this means. How do you get to nationals if you only shoot "easy" stages at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 One shooter thought it was too hard and told me it was the kind of stage he expected to see at Nationals, but it was too hard for a local match. I don't understand what this means. How do you get to nationals if you only shoot "easy" stages at home? Different clubs/sections have different policies on how they disburse their nationals slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Set this up today to run for Sunday's match. Made some slight changes to your design by having all the fault lines far enough away from the fence to prevent leaning on it, and instead of 6 strong and weak, we sharply tucked the low target behind a wall to only give 2 per side. With the way we set up fault lines, this presents a really cool shooting challenge which our local GM got in to. Also are using turtles since we are expecting some intermittent showers and don't want drooping heads. Have to take some pics and vids to show you. Setup crew was really into figuring out how to run our version of your stage. Too funny watching some shooters of various girths trying to find a way to shoot this freestyle only. Tomorrow should be a hoot. And yes, some of our newer and "C" class shooter/helpers were making noise until they began to see new ways to approach a stage. Don't you just love it when you see the light go on for somebody! Edited April 21, 2012 by vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 Great Vince. A photo would be cool. I do enjoy courses like this that both strethc the GMs and enlighten the newer shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 Set this up today to run for Sunday's match. So how did it go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Set this up today to run for Sunday's match. So how did it go? What a hoot! 65 shooters (or so). Saw some interesting ways to shoot it, and realized once again how locked in to a certain shooting style so many of us are. Almost like they forget they have a weak hand or strong hand. Right handed shooters did almost every position imaginable to NOT put that gun in their left hand, so their times and scores reflected that. Add that so many people are committed to running left to right as they fear reloading the opposite direction that they adopt those bizarre positions. and it made it quite entertaining! This was a great wake-up stage if you pay attention. Really highlights weaknesses that we have that do not get addressed at most local matches. Like you, received a good deal of moaning about the stage. Slick fault lines, how can you ask us to shoot with those conditions(it was a light intermittent rain), too hard for beginning shooters, too early in the season to run a difficult stage like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Vince - Did you have any problems with 180 DQs? Looks like it would be tight to get around the outside and the targets are pretty close to the 180 mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) Vince - Did you have any problems with 180 DQs? Looks like it would be tight to get around the outside and the targets are pretty close to the 180 mark. The way we set it up, to break the 180 on the outside targets you would need be engaging from outside the fault lines as we had a gap between the walls and the fault lines on our setup. No DQ's, but some really spotty gun handling - not to the point of a DQ, but enough that I pulled people aside and made mention of it. Too much gun shaking to drop a stubborn magazine with some darn close breaks. But that was not the fault of the design but the behavior of the shooters. It was funny, so many of the shooters just felt the need to have to be at the front of the shooting area where the angle to the lower targets were the tightest as opposed to going back 24 inches and being able to engage them much more easily (albeit strong or weak handed) from the rear of the box. Lots of them just wanted to run and gun, and air it out. This course took some of that away, especially by using the turtles which so many people do not like. I may try to do this again with 3 targets on each side in tight as opposed to the one, as originally designed. MarkCo, if you throw any more like this together, let me know! I think we may be dumbing down our COF's by making too many field courses with wide open targets and letting shooters think that this is what USPSA is all about. It is a shooting game, and tight shots, weak/strong hand and prone are positions we need to do more of. Edited April 24, 2012 by vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Vince, you might get some hate mail for encouraging me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Vince, you might get some hate mail for encouraging me... Such is life.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I was inspired by "One Handed" above, so I setup this stage about two weeks ago to let shooters explore manipulating props and deciding whether to shoot one handed or two handed. Most opted to do a rushed two handed shots on the disappearing targets, but since I setup the stage to practice the one handed skills, I shot it one handed for the front end. Use the Force.pdf (Stage got renamed to "Surprise Audit" on setup day.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlar7eKeKk0 Next time, I'll setup a stage to have more of a forcing function... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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