ClutchUSMC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I have used a few prop guns in the past, both in my matches and others I have attended. I know I want the prop gun at the start of the stage, that way if I have to give an REF for it shooters aren't penalized by shooting up their own rounds, or haven't laid down a smoking run and then have to do it again because the prop gun fails. My question is how can I mandate that the shooters engage targets on FA, and how do I handle someone who doesn't get the switch all the way around and shoots in semi? I was thinking about making it a procedural for each target not engage on FA. Also, I am borrowing someones very expensive gun to use, so I was thinking about starting at low ready, hosing a few targets and then dumping it on a table right in front of the shooter. Any advice about how to pull this off most effectively, with the most fun being had by my shooters would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 How about laying it gently on the (carpeted) table instead of "dumping" it....also remind everyone that they are playing with a firearm with a worth = to their car and a whole lot harder to come by... I would also limit the number of rounds in the MP5 mags to 5-10 that way you have little to worry about with inexperienced users and the host MP5 doesn't get overly abused by a bunch of mag dumps. Sounds fun though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchUSMC Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Yeah, I am thinking a 7 target array, 3 on each side with a no shoot in the middle. Also, I think I am going to have the RO's LAMR and hand the gun to the shooter in FA, that way they don't have to worry about it. Looking at loading each mag to 16, that gives you 4 extra with 2 burst, one on each array. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Springer Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I seriously doubt you'll have a problem with people trying to fire a fully auto weapon in semi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Would anyone want to shoot it in semi? I would probibally shoot it on semi over full auto if I were shooting it. If its that valuable of a gun ie transferrable I would leave it off the stage. If it were say a post sample go for it. But if the timer is running, I doubt you will have people treat the gun very gental. Its just like people do with a rental car. Don't put anything out there you cant afford to get used and abused because someone will do it. Edited February 9, 2012 by EkuJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 West Point, Andy Houghton 2 Gun match last year had a setup just like this with a UMP, five rounds. I saw at least one guy in my squad shoot it semi auto. I shot 2, 2, 1 which was my goal for the stage. I didn't care how I did on the rest of the stage, I just wanted to see if I could do two round bursts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 At the Ironman they have us shoot an MP5 with 20 in the mag IIRC. You shoot a plate rack and then with whatever you have left you dump on a single target and get time taken off for each "A" hit. The table and start position is on one side of the bay, the plate rack is at about 15 yards and the dump at 10. You start holding the gun at low ready, the selector stays on AUTO, you hae to shoot it empty and when you're done you lay it flat on the carpeted table at about 45 deg facing towards the berm. The fact that it is empty with the bolt locked back complies with most 3-gun rules for abandonig a gun. The rest of the COF is not directly downrange and no one goes in front of the table until the gun is cleared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchUSMC Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 TMC thats pretty much exactly what I am thinking about doing. Except for giving a bonus, just make shooters dump the mag. Bolt locked open, with no ammo in the gun is acceptable at our club and fits in the rules so I don't have to make any special exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leas327 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) If you don't want the gun to get banged up you could rig up a padded dump table with a pvc cross bar about 6 in. above the table. Make the bar like a high jump bar. Then require the shooters to knock the bar off with their strong hand while still holding the gun with their strong hand. ETA I would do any silly procedure if it allows me to run a FA gun. Edited February 9, 2012 by leas327 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzworm Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I've used a couple in stages, and have always stressed GENTLY putting them down. I've never had a problem with that so far. (even had them start on the mover with an FAL) Everyone seems to enjoy it. Always at the start of the stage. They also have to run it dry. If your club mandates a locked open bolt, the shooter may have to do that manually with the MP5, as I don't THINK it has a last rd. bolt hold open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colodrew Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) This year at RM3G we started stage 6 the pistol gully run with a MP5 loaded with 10 rounds. The shooter was handed the loaded gun on full auto by the RO so there was no confusion around the safety and what position they selected. Starting at low ready the shooter engaged three cardboard IPSC targets @ 10-15 yards. After neutralizing the targets the gun was abandoned muzzle down in a small plastic trash can with carpet in the bottom. The gun remained in the trash can under RO watch until the stage was scored. The next shooter was called to the line the RO removed the gun from the trash can, cleared it and inserted a fresh mag and then handed it to the shooter. We ran about 280 shooters through the stage and had one DQ when a shooter unsuccessfully abandoned the MP5. It bounced out of the trash can in an unsafe manner. Thankfully it was empty. We did encourage that they enjoy the opportunity and empty the gun into the targets and I would say 90% of the shooters did just that. My opinion of prop guns is that they are fun to shoot but when they adversely affect the match it sucks. With the exception of the one incident it went very smooth. It did require an extra RO to manage the whole MP5 loading of mags and staying behind to ensure it remained in the trash can until the range was clear. There is plenty of video of this stage on YouTube if you want to see it. Good luck with your match. Edited February 11, 2012 by Colodrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareyH Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 drew beat me to it. If you get on youtube there are lots of videos of the Ironman and RM3G, when they use full auto prop guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesterno Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 If you're trying to get them to do a mag dump in one target, why not say "engage T1 until the gun runs dry" and then abandon it? We had a host of samples to use after a loose indoor range a while back. we shot the USPSA stage with a FA 9mm AR, in 22lr, and then I ran the stage with a glock 18 with 33 round mag. Really fun way to burn up rounds. I giggle pretty much the whole time in the videos.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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