L1011 Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 I need to buy some magazine springs for the P16 HiCaps. After reading other threads and some bad aftermarket experiences, I have resigned myself to sticking to the factory spring. However, I can't find a source. Any help ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Brownells has them. Just ordered some the other day. 199-000-127 0490001 MAG SPRING 7.15 John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 I have used Beven Gram's springs with the Para factory extended basepad (the one that gives 18 in the mag). These are a little longer than the factory springs, but I didn't loose any capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 L1011 I have been using a P-16 for 4 years now, get some of the Grams engineering and forget everything else. PS if you want real hi-cap get some Dawson Precision + bases (21) in the mag and 1 in the gun for the 18-20 round stages. Good Luck. Hopalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Try Jack Norris. For a Para, the factory springs are definately the way to go. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 If it's one of Beven's sets (follower, spring and basepad) for the 140mm Para tubes, you ought to get 21+1 in a P-16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 For a Para, the factory springs are definately the way to go. Why? I had nothing but trouble with Para mag springs back in the mid 90s. Once I switched to Wolff, I got 100% reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1011 Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 Thanks for the info. All my mags have Dawson pads on them. I considered Wolff springs. But, the "must be fitted" line on their web site brothered me. I may try Grams springs. But, only as a test in the off season. Arredondo springs were a complete failure (with their followers). One was so bad that after removing it from the body, I attempted to stretch it out to tie it in a knot. And It broke in half with very little effort. The guys I shot with (that were chuckling over my frustrations) were as surprised as I was. I seen a lot of input on just sticking to the factory springs even with the Dawson pads. And, the combination seems to work the best, so far. Thanks again, Now where did I put that Brownells catalog . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 All I know about Para and magazine springs is: Factory, long, trim if required. I use both the Dawson bases and the Para +2's, Only time I have a probelm is if I neglect to clean a mag and wipe the ammo after droping it in dirt, sand or mud. Last set of springs ran at least two seasons. I decided to change for this year, springs had collapsed a bit, but otherwise ran fine. Other item is that I use only Para followers. Not saying others aren't any good, just what works for me. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 So who makes Para springs for them now? I suspect they're not from the same source as they were ten years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I have no idea who makes them. I get mine from Jack Norris. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve223 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I have grams springs and followers & Dawson base pads on mine and can get a reloadable 21 in em and they run 100% Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I have to admit that I never tried the Grams basepad, spring, and follower combo in my Para 16-40 but I did try Wolff, ISMI, and Arredondo springs as well as the Arredondo followers and the only thing I was able to make work consistently was Para tubes, followers, and regular length springs (199-000-127) over my new style Dawson base pads. I actually just had my first set wear out after almost three seasons of shooting and tried to replace them with some brand new Wolff springs since I had a three pack of them laying around. I thought they might at least work until my Para springs arrived. A blown match and a zeroed classifier later I learned how wrong I was. Para springs arrived yesterday afternoon so I'm back in business now. I shot the indoor match last night with them no problem. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1011 Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 . . . the only thing I was able to make work consistently was Para tubes, followers, and regular length springs (199-000-127) over my new style Dawson base pads. OK John, You're my hero. After having had my fill of aftermarket failure, I followed you suggested set up to the letter. One month later I stand (Well, actually I'm sitting) before you a much happier camper. The original para hardware with the addition of the DP basepads HAVE BEEN FLAWLESS !! Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 spring question -> Spring forum, get it? No general answer will apply, you need to work out your individual set-up. Too many combinations of spring/tube/follower/gun/base pad. I know that a 100% Grams set-up is guaranteed to work (by Beven), but I myself use mostly Dawson pads, Grams springs & Arredondo followers. 100% reliable for me. Go figure... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Mike, Glad it worked out for you. It's amazing how many possible combinations there are and how many may or may not work. One thing that hasn't been mentioned here yet is the tube coating. I've always used the plain blued steel Para tubes and with the Para springs, Para followers (edges broken w/ 600 grit), and Dawson basepads and I get a reloadable 21 in all my mags. Very rarely is that a benefit vs. only getting 18 or 19 in but when it is I try to rub it in to all my SV/STI friends as much as possible. Anyway, I was trying to get a friends gear going the other night who is also shooting a 16-40 and he had some new nickel tubes and some older blued ones that had been blasted and hard chromed. We got different performance from all of them. I noticed that the factory nickel tubes seemed to be quite rough on the inside. It looked like they hadn't been thoroughly cleaned before being dipped and they had rough spots all in them. I guess you could clean that up w/ the old dowel wrapped in sand paper or steel wool but who wants to damage their new nickel finish like that. We also had problems with the hard chromed mags. They had a matte finish that created a lot of friction. Even w/ new springs the last round was sticking while hand cycling rounds. We'll have to see tonight if it sticks during live fire but it has me worried. If they were sticking clean what will they do if they get a little grit in them during a match? They are hard chomed and will probably last forever but if they don't work then you've just extended the life of garbage. Anyway, that's just some food for thought. No real conclusions drawn on tube coating but I thought it was interesting. Man I wish Para would make good quality stainless tubes. Oh well. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1011 Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 Hi John, Yeah, all my mags are blued (painted?) too. My paying job is mechanical engineering. I deal quite frequently with plated finishes in my designs. One item of interest to you would be that I have never seen electroless nickel finishes applied to the interior of a part with the same quality and appearance as the outside. I believe it is a limitation of the process. Nickel plating can be functional or decorative. However, I've never given it much thought when making magazine selection. Your observations and my experience make sense. I guess I would recommend that your friend strip the nickel plate on one and have it blued to see if it helps. Rough nickel finishes (even on the outside) are due to old chemicals being used in the process. The best platers change the chemicals frequently. I don't know much about hard chrome. But, the process is probably similar and run the same risks. Good luck. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 NP3 I sold my P-14 before I got around to getting the NP3 done. I shot a friends Glock who had the slide done in NP3 and it was super slick and easy to clean. $25/mag didn't seem to bad to get one of the weakest links in a para fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1011 Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 I'm not sure what NP3 is. However, since it is giving you "super slick" performance, I will assume it is a variant of nickel plate with PTFE (Teflon). I have used Teflon Nickel in several applications and it is "slick". I'm sure it worked well on the glock slide because it is mostly external surfaces. However, to get the best results on a mag body, I would talk to your plating house about having a high quality finish inside the body as well as outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 I use the wolff extra long springs and cut it so 3 coils stick out the mag tube. I use arredondo purple Para followers and locally made ipsc box legal +1 base pads. I can load 19 reliably in it. Do any of you guys use the grams mag springs with the DP +1 IPSC box legal base bads in your P16 mags? How many rounds can you fit in the mag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 19 is the absolute maximum. For IPSC, what you describe is what I use: Wolf springs cut to 10 coils, purple (not the new blue ones!) Arredondo followers, and a hollowed base pad. 19 rds...(I load to 18 to reload, though...) How many 9mm do you get in your 18-9 magazines? 19 here, but Para mags vary so widely that this may not apply to everyone... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Same here for both. Mag #1 has 19 with ipsc legal pads. The subsequent mags hold only 18 for easier reloading. I can load 19 9mm rds in my LDA P18-9 mags I use in Production Division with the original plastic PO pads, but again, that's at LAMR. 18 for mag changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 L1011- Yes, it has teflon in the coating process. Click on the NP3 Link to info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 EyeCut, interesting, same here, 19 at LAMR and 18 thereafter for the 18-9 with original springs, followers and pads. Reloading the 19rs mags is possible, but then I often get malfunctions... The 18-9 has to be the largest-capacity Production Division gun available? At least one advantage... Sorry for the thread drift... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 In the back of Brownells book their is a section for Para Ordnance most all parts for factoruy replacement are listed. Jim Anglin Sailors Custom Pistols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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