Multi-Purpose Shotgun

[George D]

I'm returning to Trap shooting after a 10 year break. I only spent about a year at Trap before I took up pistols and traded my shotgun for a selection of handguns. I owned a Beretta 682 U/O then and am looking to buy another U/O, probably a Beretta 682 Gold E ( In Australia auto-loader shotguns are just one of the long list of banned guns). With the availability of adjustable stocks and interchangeable chokes, can one U/O successfully cover Trap and Sporting Clays?

Thanks for any help.

[Intel6]

While it is possible to shoot both with an O/U and the proper choke, a regular O/U will be more of a sporting clays gun than a trap gun.

A dedicated trap gun will probably have more barrel work done to it (forcing cone, porting, backboring, etc... which doesn't hurt any good shotgun) but what it will have most importantly is a rib set up specifically for shooting trap that will compensate for the rise of the bird. The rib basically makes the gun shoot high. Because of this, a trap gun with a trap rib would not be much good for shooting other types of clay events.

Neal in AZ

[tightloop]

Most dedicated trap shooters enjoy seeing the bird break over the barrel. If you shoot a shotgun without the trap rib, you have to blot out the target B4 you break the shot , not just ride up on it.

You can have some success shooting both with the same gun. I shoot an old 682 at both as well as some skeet and country shoots. I don't find the 30" bbls to be a bother anywhere.

I question why you would want to shoot any substantial amount of trap after you have discovered Clays. It is so much more fun and so much harder than trap, I lost interest after finding Clays.

[George D]

Thanks for the advice guys. I knew that a trap gun is designed to shoot high but thought that this was acheived by a higher stock and thus could be duplicated by having an adjustable stock that could be raised for trap and lowered for clays.

I live in rural Australia and our local clays range is a field and game layout in dense bushland (about 1/3 of the targets hit trees before thay can be shot). I went for a look-see 2 weeks ago and had a great deal of difficulty seeing the clays as they emerge from dense bush and have a background of dark green gum trees in substantial shadow. Even the seasoned clay shooters with old eyes were having trouble picking up the targets. It is certainly harder than trap but I wonder if it may be too hard for someone with aging eyesight such as myself. I was hoping to build some skills at the trap range, where I can see the target, and then try the field and game with the same gun. If I were to go straight to the field and game I may end up with a gun designed to shoot targets that I find I can't see.

Tightloop, I noticed in one of your posts on another thread you said

"you can only shoot trap with a trap gun, as they usually pattern 65/35 or higher so the trap shooter can watch the bird break."

I wasn't sure if you were refering to the full/IM chokes. Could you elaborate on that please.

[Irishlad]

Some alternative opinions on trap guns and sporting.

The height of the stock generally accounts for the how high the gun will shoot. Additions and or exceptions would be guns like Kreighoff that allow you to change the lower bbl hanger and raise/lower the POI, regardless of the stock height.

Beretta does not have this feature.

High ribs/stepped ribs, typical american style trap guns, allow your head to be more erect and a "fiqure 8" look between the middle and front beads. If you had two guns, both with the same stock height, same rib height at the muzzle, but one had a raised rib at the receiver end and the other had a lower rib...the guns would have the same POI. The "beads would look different, large space between one gun and a fiqure (stacked) beads on the other.

That said, a Beretta "trap gun" with a flat rib and choke tubes should work fine in sporting if the stock fits you. IMHO, a POI of 60/40 is not bad for most sports. Trap can be higher, but you should be able to hit targets keeping them in full view or "blotting" them out with 60/40. You need to test that out for yourself however.

Beretta used to sell, along with Browning, flat ribbed trap guns in the non-USA market. I know Browning does, not sure about Beretta anymore.

Good luck

[George D]

Thanks for the comments Irishlad.

I'm still a little unclear on the term "POI of 60/40". Does this mean that, on a pattern board, 60% of pellets are above and 40% of pellets are below the point of aim?

In Australia Beretta markets flat rib guns with adjustable international stocks for trap, skeet and sporting and hi-rib guns with adjustable monte carlo stocks for trap only. The flat rib skeet and sporting and the hi-rib trap have interchangeable chokes, the low rib trap has fixed.

[Irishlad]

Yes, you are right...point of impact on a pattern test. 60% above and 40% below.

Those are rough numbers as you probably know...give or take. 50/50 would be considered "flat", which is fine, and 70/30, 80/20 would be considered high IMHO. But, everyone shoots a bit different and "likes" certain "things".

No shortage of International(Olympic) trap shooters and medals in Australia.

The last two olympics and various other gold medals won by an "Aussie" (spelling?) I believe...Michael Diamond.

If you are shooting bunker(international) style trap then you don't need to look far for what type of guns they use. Probably flat ribbed 30", maybe 32" as the companies have lightened up bbls more and more...personal preference.

I think the "biggest" difference between a flat ribbed trap gun and a sporting gun will be the stock and, in particular, the drop at heel-comb relationship. Trap guns, generally, are a bit longer and have less drop than the sporting/skeet. If you don't pre-mount that can effect how easy the gun is to bring to the shoulder, etc. Again, that's personal dimensions and preference. I bring that up only to intimate that you may end up having two stocks that fit you well, rather than one that's a bit off for both sports. In the long run, what you will spend for a new Beretta and the cost of shooting clay targets, another stock "later on" is cheap.

Besides, while you are experimenting with a new gun, stock dimensions, you get a "free pass" for missing targets from your shooting buddies. That always worked for me.

So, "no worries".

[George D]

Irishlad,

Yes, Australia has done well in the Olympics with Michael Diamond and Russell Mark.

I've just returned from the Australian Beretta distributor after having been fitted for a shotgun by their gunsmith, who happens to be the gunsmith for the Australian Olympic team. After trying several guns I found a high rib monte carlo stock 32" barrel gun that required only a minor change in pitch to fit me perfectly. Despite the longer barrel and extra weight the balance made it feel "alive" compared to the other guns. Apparently this is the same gun that Russell Mark is now using.

Thanks again for your advice.

George

[uscbigdawg]

Not having done any competition, but having I think shot enough clays, 5-stand, trap & skeet to comment. I believe, that outside of major competition, that one gun can do it all.

Heck, a buddy, has cleaned more than a few rounds of trap with a stock Remington 870. This says volumes for his shooting, but further proves that with adequate practice, a good shooter can overcome less than ideal equipment.

Personally, I'm scrounging my pennies for an across the course type gun. Probably a Browning or a Beretta. 30", ported, etc. Nothing overly fancy, but at the same time, something I can grow and get better with. I don't put a whole lot of stock in trap ribs, but then, I say just shoot the damn bird! But then, that's a personal preference.

Rich

[tightloop]

to answer the question asked of me a few posts back, NO, I don't think you can shoot much but trap with a trap gun. You can shoot other sports with a skeet or clays gun as they tend not to shoot a foot and a half over the bird like a trap gun.

I went thru all the phases where I thought I had to have a specialized gun for each thing...sold all those and shoot mostly my 682 Beretta, non adjustable cheek piece for everything. Had the stock bent to fit me. If I want to shoot trap, I just blot out the bird and let the shot go. Hard to reverse that to shoot or hunt with a trap gun.

Just my feelings.

[sargenv]

I'm not so much a Trap shooter as I am other shotgun sports (skeet, clays, hunting, 3-gun) however I used to shoot trap, but never with anything as specialized as a Trap gun. One time I nearly outshot a guy with an H&R topper 20 gauge with a plain barrel and full choke. I shot a 22, he shot a 23. He was shooting one of those fancy Trap guns. He came into the club house quite pissed off about it

The only shotgun I use for all the applications above is my 28" Browning Gold Hunter. Of course for 3-gun I put on the extended tube and add other things to it, but all in all it is my overall gun for everything shotgun related. Change the choke for different ranges, change the shot sizes for different game, even change the composition (lead to steel) for waterfowling. It works for me.

Vince

[Clay1]

George, you are a lucky man. Many in the States haven't had the experience of having someone that is qualified truly fit a gun for them. You are way a head of the game my friend. After hiring a level 3 sporting clays instructor on more than just a couple of occations, a fitted piece is a grand step in the right direction.

A few years back and 10000 rounds of 12 bore that season along with some marvelous instruction was an eye opening expirence. It is one thing to own a wonder gun of great dignity and quite another to know how to use it. It sounds very much like you have the means to own the gun now do yourself a huge favor and hire a recomended instructor to show you the proper techniques to begin with and guide your development along the way.

Remember that the greatest olyimpic athleates still have a coach even at the highest level of their sport. Our US sport stars no matter their fame all have coaches as well. You can take yourself to a certain place by your own reading and learning and buying video instruction. But the greatest gains are to be made with a hired hand watching your every move.

Good luck and great shooting.

Rick