ans3288 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 hi guys! my friend bought a new super1050. i helped him set it up and we were in the process of test loading and suddenly the handle wouldnt go all the way down. good thing we stopped and released the rachet and analyzed the situation. we saw in the powder charge station a shell with a fired primer already and while cycling again, we noticed that the next shell was a crush NEW primer! long story short, we noticed that the machine is having trouble depriming 40sw brass with federal, speer and sometimes blazer. i noticed that the primer pocket is crimped(?), i tried depriming these shells in my 550 and sometimes the spent primers wouldnt fall. but when i pull the handle to deprime again the same shell, the spent primer is being removed already. we were discussing this situation and another friend suggested to just put another resizing/decapping die after the first one. the owner of the 1050 was contemplating on swaging the primer pockets. what would you guys think is the better option? speak your mind guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 More than likely, this issue is caused by the spent primer being pushed out by the decapper, but sticking to the end of the decapper. When the case is removed from the resize/decap die, the old primer is drawn back into the pocket. At the next station on the 1050, it is re-seated VERY deeply (actually, CRUSHED) because of the swager at Station 2. At Station 3, it gets even weirder as a new primer is being forced into that pocket. The solution is to remove the depriming pin from the die. Chuck it in a drill and spin it. Your goal is to remove the bluntness of the pin and round it off. Then (hopefully) the spent primers will actually fall off of it. As far as I know, there is not a 40S&W round made that has a crimped primer pocket. That's a 9 and 45 issue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I see 2 problems here. 1. The primer punch could/has reprimed the case because it stuck to the pin. 2. The primer pocket swager isn't adjusted to remove the crimp. My solution for the decapper was to NOT use Dillon pins but insted use Lyman pins. You take a broken Dillon pin, file/grind the remaining pin from the cap, drop the Lyman pin into place, then drop the Dillon cap on top and assemble as usual. The Lyman pins are smaller in diameter and cheaper plus more readily available. As for the swage rod, adjust as per the manual. Good luck and let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jar Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 As far as I know, there is not a 40S&W round made that has a crimped primer pocket. That's a 9 and 45 issue.... What about Non-Toxic ammo? All of the NT ammo I've seen in other calibers has crimped primers, though I don't load 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angus6 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) I see 2 problems here. 1. The primer punch could/has reprimed the case because it stuck to the pin. 2. The primer pocket swager isn't adjusted to remove the crimp. My solution for the decapper was to NOT use Dillon pins but insted use Lyman pins. You take a broken Dillon pin, file/grind the remaining pin from the cap, drop the Lyman pin into place, then drop the Dillon cap on top and assemble as usual. The Lyman pins are smaller in diameter and cheaper plus more readily available. As for the swage rod, adjust as per the manual. Good luck and let us know. Thanks for the Lyman tip,just started using the S1050 and was crushing primers. Saw that it looked like the problem was the old primer still in the pocket. Tried braking the outer edge as in another post but that made it worse. put a new tip in with a bit of spacer and that helped somewhat. What I'm seeing now is the primer getting pulled backup on mainly the Blazer brass , this is on 9mm Edited October 25, 2011 by angus6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaur Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 hi guys! my friend bought a new super1050. i helped him set it up and we were in the process of test loading and suddenly the handle wouldnt go all the way down. good thing we stopped and released the rachet and analyzed the situation. we saw in the powder charge station a shell with a fired primer already and while cycling again, we noticed that the next shell was a crush NEW primer! long story short, we noticed that the machine is having trouble depriming 40sw brass with federal, speer and sometimes blazer. i noticed that the primer pocket is crimped(?), i tried depriming these shells in my 550 and sometimes the spent primers wouldnt fall. but when i pull the handle to deprime again the same shell, the spent primer is being removed already. we were discussing this situation and another friend suggested to just put another resizing/decapping die after the first one. the owner of the 1050 was contemplating on swaging the primer pockets. what would you guys think is the better option? speak your mind guys! This happens often with my RL1050 when running 40 brass. The thing you need to watch/feel for, is more resistance on the downstroke, when you are pressing the primer back into the case with the swager. I get probably 5 or so of these every thousand rounds, I've learned to feel this very soon in the stroke. I then raise the handle just enough to pull the case out of the swaging station, then continue with my downstroke. If you learn to catch this very early in the stroke, you can prevent destroying cases smashing the old primer into the case, and you can prevent having to pull every case out of their stations because of the issue. The one thing you want to be careful in doing this, is that you don't cycle the handle enough to get a double charge in one case. After using the decapping pin a LOT on my 40 die, I've found it to 'mushroom' a bit on the tip, which I think causes the sticking. Replacing the decapping pin works for a while, sanding off the mushroom for a while works as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans3288 Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) thanks for the tips! we are actually using a new dillon 1050 so i would not think that the decapping pin is already blunt. he was mentioning last night that his "old school" 40cal dillon decapping die had a totally different design. no spring inside the decapping pin, just a straight solid piece of metal. he maintains, since no moving parts, the force/energy exerted by the decapping pin is transferred entirely to the primer. so no chance of hiccups. Edited October 25, 2011 by ans3288 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans3288 Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 your reply implies that this is a temporary fix, any suggestions on replacing the part so that he doesnt think about it? After using the decapping pin a LOT on my 40 die, I've found it to 'mushroom' a bit on the tip, which I think causes the sticking. Replacing the decapping pin works for a while, sanding off the mushroom for a while works as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans3288 Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 if there is NO crimped 40cal brass around, could we just stop the swaging station and convert it to another decapping station for insurance so that all brass going into the priming station doesnt still have any spent primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDM Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 As far as I know, there is not a 40S&W round made that has a crimped primer pocket. That's a 9 and 45 issue.... What about Non-Toxic ammo? All of the NT ammo I've seen in other calibers has crimped primers, though I don't load 40. I've found this to be the case for .40 in the short time I've been loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 if there is NO crimped 40cal brass around, could we just stop the swaging station and convert it to another decapping station for insurance so that all brass going into the priming station doesnt still have any spent primers? I don't run a swager rod for 9/38 Super/40 S&W (only for 45 ACP) on my 1050, and as they say in the south, "It runs like a scalded dawg!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaur Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 your reply implies that this is a temporary fix, any suggestions on replacing the part so that he doesnt think about it? After using the decapping pin a LOT on my 40 die, I've found it to 'mushroom' a bit on the tip, which I think causes the sticking. Replacing the decapping pin works for a while, sanding off the mushroom for a while works as well. Replacing the part will only have it happen again and again as the decapping pin wears. Sanding the mushroom off continues to work on old pins so you don't have to replace it so often. I suppose you could have someone make some sort of a hardened pin to spread out the time it takes to mushroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angus6 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I've got mine running great Except for the darn Blazer brass.New pin didn't help with the Blazer, got the Lyman pins order hopefully that does it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans3288 Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) ok noted, il just ask somebody to make one for me, or better yet look for lyman pins! or do just change to a LEE resizer/decapping die? at least there are a lot of options for my friend Replacing the part will only have it happen again and again as the decapping pin wears. Sanding the mushroom off continues to work on old pins so you don't have to replace it so often. I suppose you could have someone make some sort of a hardened pin to spread out the time it takes to mushroom. Edited October 26, 2011 by ans3288 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 ok noted, il just ask somebody to make one for me, or better yet look for lyman pins! or do just change to a LEE resizer/decapping die? at least there are a lot of options for my friend Replacing the part will only have it happen again and again as the decapping pin wears. Sanding the mushroom off continues to work on old pins so you don't have to replace it so often. I suppose you could have someone make some sort of a hardened pin to spread out the time it takes to mushroom. The cheapest (and best IMO) are the Lyman decapping pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Actually, there now is crimped 40 S&W brass. It initially comes from a US Coast Guard contract for 40 ammo, and required a crimp. I suspect some LE contract ammo or overruns are crimped as well. Dillon pins are heat treated. I suggest rounding the end on a scotch-brite wheel, as the cold-heading manufacturing process tends to leave a slight flat on the tip of the pin. The pins were lengthened slightly in 2005 or thereabouts. I recently tried some RCBS pins, which are slightly thinner and longer, but no improvement. We'll have to look at Lyman pins to see what the dimensional differences are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I have just measured the diameter of the Dillon and Lyman pins. Dillon = 0.074" Lyman = 0.060" The length is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notar Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I put a custom bend in the de-cap pins, it's a shallow "C" and the end of the pin remains centered over the flash hole. It takes some tweeking to get right, but it woks great for me. It sucks bad to ruin a pin, then I have to custom bend another straight pin. I have just measured the diameter of the Dillon and Lyman pins. Dillon = 0.074" Lyman = 0.060" The length is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 The RCBS pins are even smaller in diameter, about .050" or thereabouts. However, with a batch of 700+ once-fired Federal 9mm brass I still had a 1% rate of primers retracted up into the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 The RCBS pins are even smaller in diameter, about .050" or thereabouts. However, with a batch of 700+ once-fired Federal 9mm brass I still had a 1% rate of primers retracted up into the case. Are the RCBS pins about the same shape as the Lyman? Since I changed to the Lyman pins, I'm not having repriming issues. Now I'm jinxed, you watch I'll start have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans3288 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 so there is actually crimped 40cal brass! my friend bought some once fired brass and we can see the crimp! i researched over the web re crimped brass and no mention, your only have to swage military 8mm and 45acp! at least our eyes do not deceive us! so will double dacapping help? (remove the swaging station and put in another dillon resizing/depriming die) Actually, there now is crimped 40 S&W brass. It initially comes from a US Coast Guard contract for 40 ammo, and required a crimp. I suspect some LE contract ammo or overruns are crimped as well. Dillon pins are heat treated. I suggest rounding the end on a scotch-brite wheel, as the cold-heading manufacturing process tends to leave a slight flat on the tip of the pin. The pins were lengthened slightly in 2005 or thereabouts. I recently tried some RCBS pins, which are slightly thinner and longer, but no improvement. We'll have to look at Lyman pins to see what the dimensional differences are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Crushed primers...PITA for sure and some brands of brass are very prone to not fully deprime or fall off of the pin. I looked at the primers that seem to stick on the pin most often and I think they may have a different shape of anvil that the decapping pin sticks right into the middle of....and won't fall off. My decapping pins are ground a lot and kinda look like dart tips.... I take quite a bit of metal off the sides and taper them up about 3/16 or a 1/4 of an inch. It is rare that a primer rides back up into the brass now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angus6 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) The Lyman pins are smaller in diameter and cheaper plus more readily available.As for the swage rod, adjust as per the manual.Good luck and let us know. RePete if you ever do any of the PASA shoots I owe you lunch , the Lyman pins look to be doing the trick with the Blazer brass for me, looks like I can quit watching for the primers to pop out I've got a extra pack so if anyone wants to try a couple shoot me a pm and I'll stick a couple in the mail Edited October 29, 2011 by angus6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 The Lyman pins are smaller in diameter and cheaper plus more readily available.As for the swage rod, adjust as per the manual.Good luck and let us know. RePete if you ever do any of the PASA shoots I owe you lunch , the Lyman pins look to be doing the trick with the Blazer brass for me, looks like I can quit watching for the primers to pop out I've got a extra pack so if anyone wants to try a couple shoot me a pm and I'll stick a couple in the mail Thanks, I'm glad that it's working out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans3288 Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 update: my friend was able to borrow a LEE carbide resizing/decapping die. we installed it in his machine and tested a few federal/blazer brass. so far so good. will update you guys once he starts reloading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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