cheers623 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 OK, title says it all. I've done 6-7 trigger jobs with my powers custom jig. Used factory sears and hammers, used aftermarket sears and hammers, mixed and matched...you name it. BUT, I've got a Springfield Operator that I started this weekend and am having no joy when I drop the slide on an empty chamber. I follow the Brownells instructions on how to set up the jig for hammer hooks, sear primary angle, sear relief angle, and sear spring weights/adjustments. With minor changes i.e. varying ratio of primary versus secondary angles, varying heights on the angles, and varying spring tensions I've always managed to figure out a reliable, safe, consistent 2 1/2# trigger pull. I've had my trigger jobs last over 40,000 rounds with no problems. However, this Springer is not working out AT ALL! I'm in the process of trying a new sear but after a few tries it's not working either. I would like to use the factory Delta Hammer but at this point think it might the offending part. The hooks are .018" per Brownell's and I think they are square. I've used the hammer file and Fine Norton Hammer stone as usual. I've painted the engagement surfaces and got consistent engagement between the mating surfaces. SO...WTF???!!! When I drop the slide on an empty chamber 7 out of 10 times it follows to half cock. As stated above, I've tried all of the usual suspects. The only way I can get it to NOT follow is boosting the spring to 3.5-3.75# and even then it sometimes follows! I've even replaced the hammer and sear pins with new Ed Brown pins so that there is less room for play. At this point I'm ready to throw in the towel. Any advice from knowledgable guys on some black-magic voodoo on setting up the jig or differing sear angles would be GREATLY APPRECIATED! And yes, I know that the jig won't allow you to cut a straight sear angle and that you need to vary the pressure on the stone to get a straight primary and relief angle on the sear nose. Been there and figured it out. Is there a different number of click on the magic wheel or ratio 60/40. 70/30, 80/20 that would work? Ready to throw the gun, jig, and parts out the window! Thanks in advance, Cheers623 DVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I can't help you, but I'd like to know where your window is so I can be there to catch everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 How much pre travel do you have on the trigger itself? How are you adjusting your sear spring? The Brownells article by Weigand, I've found, doesn't produce a proper primary angle. Do you have a microscope so you can look at the primary angle? I set my jig at around 20 clicks to get the cut on the primary angle. On a side note, I always found Springfield Armoty guns "different" when it came to doing trigger work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheers623 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 When doing mine I make sure that the pre-travel tab is pushed back first so that the sear is allowed full movement. I don't start taking out pre-travel until after the trigger job has "proven". As far as spring adjusting, I bend the leafs at the point where they are exposed by the MSH. I measure the tension using the method described by Weigand using the trigger pull gauge. I may try using 20 clicks on the primary angle and see. Hell, I can't make it any worse at this point. Thanks for the idea. Cheers623 DVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Does the hammer cam forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheers623 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Do you mean when pulling trigger? If so then no. It does not. No perceptible hammer movement when pulling trigger. Cheers623 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 had a similar problem a few years back. there is a little known and not widely publicized minor detail that can negate the best job of getting the angles and engagement right. it involves distance. the common cause is a short sear. but realistically it comes down to the distance between the hammer and sear. thus it could be a "short" hammer instead of a short sear, that is, the engagement surfaces are "lower", or closer to the hammer pin hole, than usual, effectively increasing the distance between the two. it could also be that the distance between the hammer pin hole and sear pin hole in the frame are farther than normal. these could be measured and compared to your other guns. in my case i had cut the sear a couple times to change angles/engagement, effectively shortening it. i'd try it and get an occasional hammer follow. i figured that i got the angles or engagement wrong. i'd cut the sear again and it would still follow, but now at a greater frequency. i was befuddled. i went back and did some reading and somewhere i found a single sentence that stated that a short sear can also cause hammer follow-though. i started over with a new and measurably longer sear and the problem was solved. i can't say that this is the cause of your problem, but you can do some measurements that might help the answer that question. in any case, your problem sounds familiar and distance could be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheers623 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Thanks SUPERDUDE, that may in fact be the problem. I think I read that somewhere too. Probably in the Kunhausen book. I am going to use a new sear with a longer nose and see if I can't get this pig fixed. Any other advice is welcome... Cheers623 DVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 the common cause is a short sear. That's a great idea. This is from the Kuhnhausen manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 This will plug into a laptop computer, and you can really see what is going on. http://www.amazon.com/Celestron-Deluxe-Handheld-Digital-Microscope/dp/B004QF0A1Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319395705&sr=8-2 I'm still using the handheld job from Brownells, and that works just fine too. It's been discontinued though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anachronism Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I've also experienced this issue with an ultra light trigger. I would have expected the opposite to be true, but replacing the trigger with a heavier Videcki cured the issue with no other changes. It still doesn't make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimberacp Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 IMO...I've tried to learn how to do trigger work for myself. I bought that same setup you have and went the same problems and I even bought another different jig from Marvel. Read some books, did search here on the forum and other 1911 forums to try and learn what I could about doing trigger work. I gave up!!!!!! Not to discourage you but for me, I would rather buy the parts and pay someone else, who has better knowledge and experience in doing trigger work! It just wasn't worth it for me. What I did get out of all the "trial and error" was knowing how the trigger operates. Thats a plus when dealing with a smith, whether he's explaining or I am explaining to him in what I want. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Is your jig and everything square? I saw one jig...can't remember now whose it was...but to me anyways one of the pins coming out of the jig was not square to the jig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 one of the pins coming out of the jig was not square to the jig. Absolutely true! When you put pressure on the sear as you're stoning it, the pin will bend over time and the result is an uneven surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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