Lightstrikes from "wet" primers?

[robot]

I've been having a ton of light primer strikes ever since I started shooting revolver and reloading my own ammo with Federal primers. I seat them below flush and you can actually see it slightly crushed. I run a 8lb trigger pull with an Apex Firing Pin. Everything is correct according to popular feedback. I shouldn't have these problems.

I have at least 2-3 light strikes at each match (IDPA or USPSA) until recently when it got hotter and dryer. The past three matches I've shot in when it's dry, I had ZERO light strikes over 600 rounds.

Few months ago while trying to investigate why i'm getting light strikes, I wrote up a post on my blog talking about some "green" residue inside the case of a light strike bullet. (http://gunbot.wordpress.com/2011/03/28/wth-is-this-green-stuff-bad-primer/)

My suspicion is that because I carry moonclips nose down, the primer is exposed to the elements, and when it rains, some of it gets into the primer pocket and wets the primer compound. Nowadays if it rains (almost every time here in the PNW), I'll drape a towel on my moonclip holder to make sure my ammo stays dry.

What do you guys think? Anyone experience this problem before?

Edited July 18, 2011 by robot

[Toolguy]

Might be possible. Once moisture gets in there, it would be very hard for it to get out. That is why military ammo has sealer around the primers. That would also account for the green residue in the cases. Brass is a mix of copper and tin. Copper oxide, the equivalent of rust or corrosion, is turquoise or green colored. Moisture inside the case would make the copper oxidize. I would get some plastic sheet material to put over the moonclip holder instead of a towel. Clear would be a good choice.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Toolguy

[Kevin G.]

I can't say I have any experience with this issue or one like it...sorry. That green stuff isn't the primer compound as suggested on your blog. It's actually a wax of sorts intended to keep the primer compound in the cup. I would guess if it made it's way through the flash hole and coated the case walls it got washed there. How did the powder look when you pulled the bullet? any signs of water damage?

[robot]

I can't say I have any experience with this issue or one like it...sorry. That green stuff isn't the primer compound as suggested on your blog. It's actually a wax of sorts intended to keep the primer compound in the cup. I would guess if it made it's way through the flash hole and coated the case walls it got washed there. How did the powder look when you pulled the bullet? any signs of water damage?

ahh!! I didn't check the powder if it ever happens again, I'll definitely do that. I doubt it will, now that it's dry and hot.

@Toolguy : good point about the towel need something more waterproof.

[ffl]

I have a natural shelf protecting my moon clips when they are on my belt and don't have that problem. Sorry I could not help you.

[M1911]

I have a natural shelf protecting my moon clips when they are on my belt and don't have that problem.

I have the same type of tactical shelf.

Edited July 19, 2011 by M1911

[Carmoney]

What do you guys think? Anyone experience this problem before?

I think it's unlikely that the issues are caused by moisture infiltration. I've shot plenty of matches in the rain with my moonclips hanging right out there, including a couple of Nationals in Tulsa that required us to literally flop down into puddles of standing water to shoot prone, and I've never had a misfire at a major match. And when I get home from a rainy match, I toss all the unused moonclips (if there are any!) into a box to use again. I think primers are pretty much self-sealing, except for perhaps being totally immersed for a length of time (which might be an issue with military ammo--hence the sealer). Smokeless powder is extremely non-hygroscopic and it's doubtful that moisture would be an issue there either. Besides, with damp powder you would be likely to get some squibs mixed in.

I think it's more likely something to do with your gun set-up, or even more likely something to do with your primer seating habits. Primers should be seated firmly, below flush and starting to flatten out, but not crushed to the point that you can see the anvil. If you're relying on a machine to seat your primers, you might want to use a hand-priming tool instead--much more consistent and reliable.

[robot]

Hey Mike! thanks for the response. Initially I thought that was the problem too but I don't know how to explain that it doesn't happen anymore. I'm not changing the way I seat the primers or meddled with the gun except to repair the front sight. Only variable I can think off right now, is the weather.

Sounds really strange but don't know how to explain the green residue inside the brass.

perhaps a few of the brass I was using is already worn out and have slightly larger primer pockets? could that be the case? (excuse the pun)

Edited July 19, 2011 by robot

[Carmoney]

perhaps a few of the brass I was using is already worn out and have slightly larger primer pockets? could that be the case? (excuse the pun)

(Nicely done!)

You oughtta see the stash of brass I use. I've been slowly gathering .45 brass since 1987, and I only throw it away when it splits halfway down!

[professor]

You don't show the impact side of the primers. When you say there was a 'light strike', I took it to mean that the dimple due to the firing pin was not as pronounced as on the rounds that fired.

It could be that the difference is due to the dynamics taking place when a cartridge goes off. If you've ever fired a primed shell with no powder or bullet, you'll find that the primer pops up out of the primer pocket enough to bind the shell and prevent the cylinder from rotating. That's because some of the primer gases have pushed against the bottom of the primer pocket. Of course, in a regular cartridge, enough of the primer explosion goes through the flash hole to ignite the main powder charge.

When the main charge goes off, the resulting gases propel the bullet out of the shell, down the barrel, etc. But the shell casing itself is propelled backward to impact against the blast shield. This forces the primer back into the primer pocket, sometimes flattening it flush to the base of the shell.

I suspect that this process happens so fast that the primer impacts the firing pin again, and creates the deep impression that is typical of a fired cartridge.

So, in my interpretation, the 'light strikes' you see are simply a function of the primer not going off.

The missing compound that you see in the pulled primer [green wax, if another poster's comment is correct] had to go somewhere. If it was in the primer to start with, I imagine that it's possible to have cracked loose at some point between loading and attempt at firing. In that case, the wax might have worked its way through the flash hole into the powder chamber. At that point, and here I'm speculating wildly, the loose wax and cartridge is subjected to high temperatures in the cylinder created by the other shells being fired. Wax is wax. Enough heat might have melted the was and produced that greenish tint to the inside of the shell.

Inquiring minds would like to know... what does the primer hit look like? Do you check primers prior to loading looking for missing compound? What does the powder look like in one of the misfires?

[robot]

Inquiring minds would like to know... what does the primer hit look like? Do you check primers prior to loading looking for missing compound? What does the powder look like in one of the misfires?

thanks for the alternate view to this conundrum.

it's been a while since I had lightstrikes, but they look like normal lightstrikes, just a very small dimple in the primer. I don't check each individual primer, as that would take too much time, but during the primer pickup process, I did not notice any "non-green" primer wax indicating that it could be a bad primer.

again, I didn't think to check the powder unfortunately.

[soaringf22]

how old were the primers?

My coworker gave me CCI small pistol primers that I loaded in my open gun and they would not go bang consistantly, so i put them in one of my striker fired guns which will eat the hardest primers all day, and still would not fire each time. when i was asking my coworker if they ever gor wet or something he said he hasnt loaded in over 20 years and they have been sitting in his garage since then.

now if i come across old primers i will use them for practice, his batch i threw out since 1 out of 3 rounds working wouldnt make for good practice.