610 sticks on take up

[ihocky2]

Hi guys, I’m having a minor issue with my 610. I bought the gun used about 2 months ago and have had an issue with it during the take up by the hand. Whether I run it SA or DA the hand rotates the cylinder and then just before it should start to slip out of the ratchet it catches a little before it breaks free to move. It does this on every cylinder. At first I thought it was a problem with the heavy factory trigger so I installed lighter springs. Made a great difference in the trigger, but now I can feel the hesitation even more. I thought maybe it was a burr in the trigger group somewhere since I hadn’t polished anything yet. This past weekend I had it open and polished all of the mating surfaces. It made the trigger even nicer but I still had the hesitation, so as I watch the hand in the ratchet I could see it was as it moved from the top face to the side face that it was catching in the edge of the hand. So I took an Arkansas stone and gave it two quick light swipes to remove any burrs and to break the edge a hair. This helped quite a bit, but it is still there. I didn’t want to get crazy with it because I didn’t want to mess up the timing.

What can I do to help eliminate this problem. I did not really get a great look at the ratchet but I did not notice any burrs on it.

This is a pain because I can’t get a consistent stroke on double action. It goes so far nice and smoothly and then once it hits that edge the weight stacks up and makes the pull harder. It works great for staging the trigger, but the extra pull makes me throw a shot every now and then. None of my other S&W’s do this, I want to get this one nice and smooth like those.

As a side note I noticed the pin that the hand attaches to the trigger with looks a little banged up like it was peened on the outside face of the hand. The hand has a good amount of side play when it is not in the slot, could this be the problem? If so, I am guessing installing a new hand is best left to a professional smith so they can set the timing correctly?

[okshootist]

Check for a burr or step in the window, particularly the outside edge. It is possible that the timing is just too fast and the cylinder is binding between the hand and the stop. Does the cylinder rotate clockwise a little when the trigger is released? I would also check the crane alignment and the endshake before changing the hand.

[Toolguy]

It sounds like you have one of those "floating" hands. Take that one out and replace it with a regular hand. The binding at the end of the trigger pull is caused by the hand getting pinched between the ratchet and the frame. Install the new hand and see how it is. If it does the same thing as the old one, use a stone or diamond file to make the left side of the tip narrower. That is the part that sticks out forward on the side that goes against the ratchet. Do a little at a time and check the fit. This is a file and fit operation. You will have to go back and forth several times. Also, see if there are corners on the ratchets where the hand makes a transition from pushing up to sliding by. If there is a corner there, gently stone it on each ratchet. That will make for a smoother transition and a trigger pull that is the same all the way through.

[Carmoney]

Yep--definitely the dreaded floating hand syndrome!

This is exactly what we were talking about on the other thread--on some guns the floating hand works fine, but on others it causes crazy glitchiness (of just the sort ihocky2 describes) that are difficult or impossible to resolve without replacing the hand.

The late '80s were not good years for S&W.

[ihocky2]

Thanks for the help guys. After being tipped off that it could be the floating hand I did a search and it seems like that is most likely the cause. I am looking at getting a Power Custom oversized hand, should I replace the hand spring with it, or will the original from the floating hand still work with the standard hand? If I fit the hand myself how hard is it to screw up the timing? I am comfortable working on the internals, but have never had to fit a hand and will take it to a smith to get it done if needed, though I prefer to work on it myself to get the action where I like it. Is there any good info anywhere for tips on fitting the hand?

[Tom E]

Just get a std S&W hand.

[Toolguy]

Thanks for the help guys. After being tipped off that it could be the floating hand I did a search and it seems like that is most likely the cause. I am looking at getting a Power Custom oversized hand, should I replace the hand spring with it, or will the original from the floating hand still work with the standard hand? If I fit the hand myself how hard is it to screw up the timing? I am comfortable working on the internals, but have never had to fit a hand and will take it to a smith to get it done if needed, though I prefer to work on it myself to get the action where I like it. Is there any good info anywhere for tips on fitting the hand?

You can use the original spring. A regular hand will most likely work fine. If you get an oversized hand then you will have to get a hand window file to make the slot wider for it to fit in the gun. It is easy to screw up the timing by filing too much off the side of the hand and making it too narrow where it goes past the ratchet. Then the timing will be late and the cylinder won't be locked up before the hammer falls. There are some good tips on hand fitting in the 4th post up from this one.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Toolguy

[Carmoney]

I am looking at getting a Power Custom oversized hand...

God no, don't do that. The Power hands are waaaaay oversized in every direction.

Try a regular N-frame hand first, and if you don't get proper carry-up S&W also lists an oversized N-frame hand.

[jhgtyre]

I have the Power Custom oversized hand in my 629 and it works great. It was a gunsmith fit part though. Weekend tinkerers may be capable of fitting it but I didn't want to take the chance that I would ruin the part.

-ld

[Carmoney]

The idea behind the Power oversized hand is that you can use it to fix a gun that is so worn and wallowed out that nothing else will work.

It's a good idea, and I keep one around just in case, but in the real world they're almost never necessary. And they are a bitch to fit.

[Tom E]

And you'll find there's several thousndth's variance in thickness with the S&W std hands. Handy for fitting.

[ihocky2]

Thanks for the help so far guys. I received a new hand yesterday and installed it tonight and got pretty good results. Without the sticking of the floating hand I dropped 1 pound off the trigger pull. I am not certain on the timing though. If I creep the trigger in SA 4 of the chambers barely lockup and two usually do not. When I pull the trigger though (holding the hammer) they lock up. If I pull the hammer any faster than a creep, all chambers lock up just fine. In DA two of the chambers lock up just a hair before the hammer drops when pulling the trigger as slow as I can. At any type of actual shooting speed I am getting the cylinger to snap around early and have no problems with lock up.

With this situation should I worry about the timing or is it okay as is? This is a competition only gun since I have the DA trigger at 6 pounds and the SA trigger is about 1-3/4 pounds. Anytime I so shoot SA I will still be cocking the hammer with at least a little authority.

[Shooting4life]

Just get a regular hand, no need for oversized. The floating hand is one of the first things I replace. You might be able to find some used ones on gunbroker but you have to go through all the parts lists to find what you want.

[Toolguy]

You can try to correct this a little by taking the hand and trigger out and leaving them together as a unit, bend the top of the hand slightly towards the center pin. In some cases this will advance the timing enough to make it lock up before the hammer falls. Sometimes you have to file the hand window wider to make this work, but I don't think that will be needed in this particular case, based on previous information.