Henning USPSA H-141 base pad

[PHX]

Hello all,

I recently picked up a limited in 9mm. I also picked up 3 factory 9mm mags. They are the black tubes with the orange follower and thick black plastic base pad. I shaved off the front of the plastic base pad so it would seat in the mag well. The problem is the magazine sits too far in the mag well. I never feel like i can trust the mag if fully engaged on reloads. I did some looking and came across the H-141 pad henning carries. I want to order some, but had 3 questions. Will the spring and follower I have now work with the extended base pad, or do I need to move to a different spring? Will the base pad fit on the tube I have now? I am also curious how you install the base pad on the tube.

Thanks

[jmcmanis]

I would go with the h400 basepads with 9mm.

With the larger basepads you need a longer spring or, you can fill in the extra space in the bottom of the basepad to keep from having to use a longer spring.. this way the pad would just be for looks and feel.

I don't know if the 9mm works with the higher capacities.. I shoot .38 super and have no problems.. I have mags set up with h400 with factory followers and springs, and grams kits, h141 with factory followers and wolf springs, and also ones with grams kits.

[twister]

Phx, I would like to know if your gun works alright with the stock factory mag? I'm wanting to get a limited in 9mm, and all I hear about is mag problems with the 9mm. I have a Limited in 40, and all the mags I've got work fine.I hope you get your mag problem worked out.

[PHX]

Thanks for the advice jmcmanis. Do the h400 pads fit in the limited mag well? Do they sit flush or protrude out of the bottom a little?

twister, I have had no issues so far with my factory 9mm mags. The only problem is the base pad when they come from the factory, but that is easily fixed with some sanding or replacement.

[twister]

Tihanks for the quick reply.

Edited May 16, 2011 by twister

[Nealio]

The new 9mm guns have the new MecGar mags. There are no issues with these mags. They work great. However any orange follower mags are the old ones. I've written 5 different threads about the differences if you search. Where did you get these mags? EAA hasn't sold these in over 4 months.

As far as base pads are concerned (I have stock rubber, stock Limited, H-400, and H-141):

You can use the H-400, that works fine, but you can only get 16 (17?) round in the mag. It is about flush with the stock magwell when seated. I personally like the H-141 better as it sticks out a little so you can seat the mag better, and its only $5 more (?).

Do a search and read the many threads I started about the mags as I don't want to re-type all that info again. The summary is the front spacer mags suck, and won't feed more than 10 rounds of reloads. The rear spacer (but still orange follower, single large indent on sides) mags are decent, and if kept tuned will feed up to 21 good, but you'd need to make a full length spacer for them. The new MecGar mags (black follower, 2 narrow indents on sides) feed awesome, but you need to make a spacer for the H-141 extension if you want to load them with more than 21 rounds.

[littletoe]

I Have the Limited in 9mm and use the factory aluminum limited base pads and they load perfect to eighteen rounds.....The only downside is as said earlier....... its hard to get them seated easily because they sit up inside the magwell so far.... I have tried to put the larger basepads on my tubes and increase my round count but the folllower always gets stuck in the extended bottoms and you have to take the mag apart to get it unstuck....which sucks...you may be able to put a spacer in the bottom of the mag to keep the follower from going down so far but i have not tried it.

[PHX]

I bought the gun used so it came with the factory mag (all chrome with silver base pad), and 3 of the older mags (not MecGar). I have only used it in 4 matches, but have had no issues running 17 rounds in each mag. Because of that I tried making my own addition to the factory plastic base pad. I screwed and super glued some marine grade plywood to the bottom of a mag, shaped it on a belt sander, and then I coated the whole thing in epoxy to try and make it one solid piece. It looked just like it had a H-141 pad on it, but without the extended capacity. It worked great for a few weeks until I did a mag change at my last match. I fired one shot, and then the base pad blew off dropping all 16 rounds in the dirt in front of me. The plastic that sat on top of the feet of the mag tube snapped off on both sides. The only thing I can think of is the epoxy made the plastic brittle and finally gave. Cost me the match which is the worst part.....I guess thats what I get for trying to save some $ and do it myself.

I placed an order with henning today for a H-141 pad and a 170mm spring (as recommended by customer support at henning). I figure it was worth the $35 gamble to see how I like it before setting up the rest of the mags that way.

littletoe: What larger base pad did you put in your mags that made the follower stick? Did you move to a longer spring? What follower did you use?

Thanks for all the input guys! much appreciated.

[Nealio]

What larger base pad did you put in your mags that made the follower stick? Did you move to a longer spring? What follower did you use?

The follower will stick with ANY extended basepad added to a magazine that has a spacer in it. The older Tanfoglio mags (like you have) don't have a full length spacer, so you won't be able to load much more than 18 rounds or so without the follower (or a loaded round) going past the spacer and snagging on the end. The .40 guys remove the spacer (or run 10mm mags) to fix this issue. For 9mm I found it was better to create a full length spacer than to remove it entirely. I removed the stock spacer, then foam taped a full length metal spacer into the mag body. I was able to load 21 consistently with no issues (related to the spacer or follower at least) in my "new old" mags (there are 3 versions of the 9mm mags BTW).

Hope that helps.

- Nealio

[PHX]

Are there any other companies out there that make base pads for these mags? Would something for a CZ mag work?

[jjanglin]

Caspian's new quick release mag pads will work with the EAA mags, cheaper and easier to take on and off.Brownells

also sells the Caspian QR mag pads

Jim/Pa

Sailors

[PHX]

I took a look at brownells and saw a quick change base pad and a high capacity base pad made by caspian. Which one are you refering to? Do you have personal experience with these pads?

[Nealio]

I would imagine the Caspian pads are going to have the same problem. This isn't a Tanfoglio specific problem. Any full size gun that has spacers in the mags has this issue. I think the STI guys run mags without spacers in them to get around this.

[PHX]

Is this the base pad you are talking about jjanglin?

http://www.brownells.com/1/1/35534-1911-auto-magazine-components-high-cap-mag-base-plate-40-s-w-caspian.html

[jjanglin]

Is this the base pad you are talking about jjanglin?

http://www.brownells.com/1/1/35534-1911-auto-magazine-components-high-cap-mag-base-plate-40-s-w-caspian.html

Yes that is the one I use and yes I have used the Caspian base pads on EAA/TZ magazines a lot.

Caspian mags are near Identical to EAA/TZ mags, they are made by the same people.

Jim/Pa

Sailors Custom

[PHX]

So I spent an hour on the mag today setting it up the best I could. Just a said before I can only get 18 in the mag now for it to work reliably. If I put 19 in it nose dives the second round, and 20 will make the follower stick at the bottom. I got tired of playn with it today, but next time I will be adding an aluminum extension to the metal spacer in the mag tube. Should fix the nose dive and follower jam problem.

I am confused about one thing though. I am using a 170mm spring with 1.5 coils cut off the bottom. I can't get the slide to stay back once the mag runs dry. There should be plenty of spring tension to push the follower into the slide catch.

Thanks again for all the help

[PHX]

Here is the update......

I took Nealio's advice and purchased a new MecGar mag. Midway USA had them for the lowest price I could find ($25 per). This is the link: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=414974

I have to say that Nealio was 100% correct on this one. I simply added a Henning H-141 pad to the mag and I had a reliable 20 mag. No nose dives and no salt shaker (stuck follower). I did try 21 in the shop, but that made the follower stick. Here is a picture of the two mags side by side with the base pads off. You can see how much longer the spring is on the new mag compaired to the old mag with the back spacer. This really helps with the nose dive issue I believe. Also the follower was fit much better to the inside of the mag tube. The orange one is so damn sloppy!

I also took a picture of the inside of both mags for comparison in case anyone was curious what it looks like. This is the best I could do in my shop with my phone camera. Here is the "new old" mag with the rear spacer:

Here is the new MecGar mag:

As you can see the new mags are much more clean on the inside, and get rid of the spine running down the back of the mag. This also allows for the new MecGar follower to be solid, so the entire follower is in contact with the mag. This was not the case with the old type orange follower. I hated how sloppy the fit was, and the split in the back of the follower did not make the follower ride properly on the spine in the back.

Overall this new design is 1000 times better. A very reliable 20 round mag for only $55 + shipping. Thats a hard price to beat.

I hope this was helpfull, and if you have any question or want more pics let me know.

Thanks again for the help Nealio!

Edited May 30, 2011 by PHX

[priler]

very nice PHX.

i do have a couple of questions though.

first,the link that you provide to midway is for the old 18 rd mags. the new mec-gar 9mm 17 rd mag has the part number MGWIT9SFAFC. i suppose it's possible that midway simply hasn't changed the information and if you order,you get the new mec-gar 17 rounder. it does have "K9" on it so....

also,thanks for the pictures. so for sure,the new mec-gar 9mm mag does NOT have a spacer. nice. looks like the back end is thicker,so the whole back end IS a spacer.

secondly,your saying you installed the H-141 base pad but left the stock mec-gar spring and follower in place and got 20 rounds? is this correct. i just want to get my facts straight.

i understand what you mean about the follower. the walther p99 use to come with 16 rd s&w mags but then they moved to a mec-gar 15 rd mag and the follower had longer legs and a larger overall follower that really keeps the top rounds in optimum position more positively(and no doubt helps keep the spring from coming closer to binding).

mec-gar to the rescue.

please let us know if you do any modification(that's reliable) to get 21/22 rounds without the follower sticking. (perhaps it's the H-141 that should already come modified to this mag,i dunno)

Edited May 31, 2011 by priler

[PHX]

priler:

When I called Midway before I ordered I asked if this was the newest style mag they had. The guy told me as far as he knew it was. I only ordered one in case it wasnt the newest MecGar. I believe this is it. The advertise it holds 18, but the body is only marked for 17 rounds. I didnt even try the capacity when I got it, I just pulled it apart and put on the H141. The link I have above is the product numbered I ordered. Is K9 supposed to be the designation for the newest MecGar mag?

You are correct about the spacer issue. You cant see it in the picture, but there is a pull size spacer in the mag tube. There just wasnt any light going through it in the picture. The gap is very small, about 1/16 of an inch I would guess. It totally corrects the old problem though. I also like how the spring has a spot to rest a full coil in the bottom of the follower. It really has a nice seat in the follower, Im sure that helps also.

That is correct I left the factory spring and follower in, and only added the H141 pad. Since the spring is noticeably longer it works just fine with the extension. The only reason I bought a 170mm spring the first time I tried this pad was because Henning told me the factory spring would be to week to support the top rounds, which was true. The MecGar mags are good to go.

The only way to get 21 or 22 rounds in the mag would be to add a spacer the same size as the one in the magazine tube to the base pad. That way it would be the same dimensions inside the mag the whole way down. I was thinking of trying it by adding a piece of aluminum (at the correct thickness) to the base pad. I was going to try adn rivet it in place. I dont like the idea of drilling into these nice pads though. They really are top notch quality. I also think 20 rounds is plenty for me. Just personal opinion.

Hope that helps, and thanks for the comment!

[priler]

well,according to another gentlemen in a thread around here,the mec-gar mags have that marking according to caliber.for example,if it's a 10mm mag,it will have "K10". K9,as yours ,are 9mm and so on.

my "move" towards tanfoglio is going to be a small but sizable investment and i don't like surprises.i'm having a hard time as it is thinking of these pistols as "sporting" instead of as "tools" for which utter reliability is an absolute must. i've already been wrong as to exactly what "small frame" and "large frame" actually means in tanfoglio lingo,even though in my hands i was right. my transition to "sporting" and participating in local events has caused a massive internal debate as i don't wish to sacrifice the years of practise with what i actually carry and my efficiency with that. anyway....

i see,so the spacer is there but it's wider than on the previous mag and covers the back pretty much end to end. that's a definite improvement and in combination with the new follower should make for increased reliability. i bet that on the old mag,if you press inward on the follower along it's edges,the follower would tilt a little but if you do the same on the mec-gar,the follower would simply move downward perpendicular to the mag body. this is the same thing as on the walther mags i mentioned. with mec-gar,it's all about reliability. it's surprising how long it's taken seeing how mec-gar is italian too.

thanks for the info PHX,i appreciate that.

as to creating a spacer in the base pad,i would probably try some type of industrial metal adhesive before using rivets but making the spacer from aluminum is a good idea. i would also relegate these mags(as such modified)for pure sporting use and not for anything defensive(just in case). i would think that the dimensions,and in particular,where one spacer meets the other,would be extremely critical for reliability,including any gap. perhaps making them as close as posible to the other and taking off a tiny amount on the edges where the two spacers meet and applying some type of fairly permanent lubricant there so that the follower moves smoothly from one spacer to the other,might be a good idea,i don't know.given how mag parts all come together,this can be difficult.

20 rds with perfectly reliable mags is good though,i agree with you,..but i'm learning fast that,in competition,if there's some advantage to exploit,someone will.

Edited May 31, 2011 by priler

[priler]

i wanted to ask one more thing PHX.

have you tried loading 21 rounds and with an open slide,inserting the mag and releasing slide.

in other words,if you load 21 rds with a closed slide,the follower will bind because the slide is pushing on the top round causing the follower to move farther down but with an open slide it won't.

have you been able to confirm this? with 20 rds,it should be no problem either way.

also,have you thought of making a witness hole for the 20th round?

[PHX]

I understand what you are talking about viewing these firearms as tools. I started shooting my local matches with my usp compact which I carry every day. I did ok with it, but I soon realized if I wanted to start winning I needed better tools. My family has always been a huge tanfoglio and witness fan, so a limited seemed like a no brainer for the price. I couldn't be more happy, and my scores have gone through the roof. The tools you chose do indeed make a huge difference!

I haven't tried loading 21 in the mag and then loading with the slide open. Ill give it a shot tonight. I did test the capacity at the bench, but I can't remember if I pushed the rounds out with my finger, or by operating the slide.

I'm glad this was helpful.

[PHX]

How would you go about making a witness hole for the 20th round? I like that idea.

[priler]

i would use the last two holes already on there to judge how far down three more round would be,then use a drill bit about the size as the holes already there.then take off any rough edges.if bare metal comes up,maybe a tiny bit of paint. given the importance of the follower not snagging,well,i guess it's important.

i'm not sure if the last round would be to the left or right of the mag body,but i would drill the hole on the side that the round goes.also,i think i would prefer the hole to be a little farther down than the center of the 20th round,that way you can tell it's number 20 coming in.it's hard to tell if you put 20 or 21 if the hole is completely covered.

also,apply only a light force to drill the hole slowly,don't apply too much pressure,..you don't want to bend or deform the mag body,even the slightest bit. take your time.

on loading 21 rounds with the slide open,..i'd be careful how far down to push #20 in order to load #21. it's really more of an excercise/issue to see what's the fastest way to get 20+1.

when pushing down #1 through #19,with either your fingers or an uplula,how far won't be as critical as #20(so the follower doesn't snag).(then again,some mag loaders can push the rounds quite a ways in,so a bit of judgement and experimenting may be needed)

thanks PHX.

[Joe4d]

loading 21 with the slide open or loading 20 with the slide closed after chambeeing a round with a barney mag is the same thing, you havent gained anything but stressed your mag trying to get the extra round in.

On the witness holes take the basepad off load the mag with light tension on the spring holding the mag upside down, you'll be able to see where the round is.