Load data for Winchester JHP

[JayJayJay]

Load data for .40 S&W JHP

I cannot find any information on loading data for 180 Gr Winchester JHP bullets. I have searched every web site with no luck. I have #7 powder and the loading data only shows for a 180 Gr Hordandy bullet. So now what the heck do I do? Accurate Powder #7 loading data shows only 180 HDY XTP / 7.7 grains of #7 / OAL 1.135. But the Lyman loading handbook 49th edition does not show loading data for #7 powder, it does say that the OAL for Jacketed JHP are all 1.115. So should I just go with the longer OAL so that I have some room to play with? What I cannot figure out is why the Lyman book shows a diagram of a .40 bullet that shows the OAL at 1.135 but than different bullets show a different OAL. I am so lost. All I want to do is load these bullets. I really need a local friend to come by and show me how to do this before I just burn this 550B!

I have a match tomorrow and it looks as if I will be running down to Wal-Mart to buy ammo again. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited April 30, 2011 by JayJayJay

[dugout]

Load data for Winchester JHP

I cannot find any information on loading data for 180 Gr Winchester JHP bullets. I have searched every web site with no luck. I have #7 powder and the loading data only shows for a 180 Gr Hordandy bullet. So now what the heck do I do? Accurate Powder #7 loading data shows only 180 HDY XTP / 7.7 grains of #7 / OAL 1.135. But the Lyman loading handbook 49th edition does not show loading data for #7 powder, it does say that the OAL for Jacketed JHP are all 1.115. So should I just go with the longer OAL so that I have some room to play with? What I cannot figure out is why the Lyman book shows a diagram of a .40 bullet that shows the OAL at 1.135 but than different bullets show a different OAL. I am so lost. All I want to do is load these bullets. I really need a local friend to come by and show me how to do this before I just burn this 550B!

I have a match tomorrow and it looks as if I will be running down to Wal-Mart to buy ammo again. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...so you left yourself one day, today, to develop a load, chrono, sight in with it, and test/tune all you mags with it, so you can shoot a match tomorrow? This is somehow the 550Bs fault???

Dude, slow down, go to walmart and buy some ammo for tomorrow.

Next take your time and develop a load that works in your system. If you just slam something together that goes "BANG" you're not going to be happy and neither is this forum full of polite, skilled, and experienced shooters as they try to to disect the disaster and walk you back through a proper load development process. You are much more likely to get significant help if you are not in too much of a rush, and seem willing to learn what you need to know.

Oh, by the way, take a minimum start load for your powder and any 180g jacketed bullet as a starting point for your bullet, working up with a chrono. Did you have a load in mind when you bought the bullets and powder? What was the data for that load? This is not hard, loading good quality ammo, but there is a process you need to develop to keep from wasting time and/or hurting yourself.

Be safe, take your time, and good luck!

[Hi-Power Jack]

+1, Dugout. I couldn't have said it any

better than that.

Start by checking how long you can load

this bullet and it still runs thru your

mag, and will chamber properly.

Then back off by a small amount - there,

that's your OAL for that bullet in YOUR

gun/mags.

Then, start at 7.0 grains of powder, and

also load some 7.2, 7.4 and 7.6 - run them

thru the chrono looking for the right

PF and signs of pressure.

Then run 20 or so of the right PF, and

check for accuracy. You might try

different OAL's to achieve better

accuracy at that point.

Then, you have one load developed, if

it feeds well, feels well and is

accurate.

If not, you have to tweak something -

try a different powder or bullet, or

change something.

But, that first load will probably be

better than Walmarts Ammo.

Take your time and good luck. Probably

take at least two different range sessions

to achieve this first step.

Jack

[gng4life]

Yeah, I agree, slow down and take your time. The only time you should be rushing with a load is one that is proven time and time again. Even then, you still have to test since there are variations from lot to lot with the same powder sometimes. Hello Walmart

[JayJayJay]

At this point I am more worried about blowing my hands off. I have been slowly working on this for a month now and still have not made a single bullet. i mess around with the powder, than I mess with the depth of the bullet, I then mess with the proper crimp and then I take the bullet apart. I have yet put in any live primers or test fired any of the rounds. I have not gotten a crono yet and at this stage of the game I am just trying to make some good range ammo for fun. It is just frustrating because there is not a book out there that tells you every bullet, or powder to build a round. Thanks guys.

[noylj]

.40 S&W

Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max Power Factor COL

JHP-XTP, HAP, FMJ-FN 180 AA7 7.4 800 Start 144

XTP 180 AA7 7.7 861 Start 155

JHP 180 AA7 7.9 866 Start 156

Horn-XTP 180 AA7 8.0 Start 0

XTP 180 AA7 8.5 978 176 1.1350

TMJ, GD-HP 180 AA7 8.7 895 Start 161 1.1200

JHP 180 AA7 8.8 984 Max 177

Speer PHP 180 AA7 9.0 969 174

JHP 180 AA7 9.0 986 177

Horn-XTP 180 AA7 9.3 1050 Max 189

JHP-XTP, HAP, FMJ-FN 180 AA7 9.4 1000 Max 180

JHP 180 AA7 9.5 1048 189

TMJ, GD-HP 180 AA7 9.7 972 Max 175 1.1200

[JayJayJay]

.40 S&W

Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max Power Factor COL

JHP-XTP, HAP, FMJ-FN 180 AA7 7.4 800 Start 144

XTP 180 AA7 7.7 861 Start 155

JHP 180 AA7 7.9 866 Start 156

Horn-XTP 180 AA7 8.0 Start 0

XTP 180 AA7 8.5 978 176 1.1350

TMJ, GD-HP 180 AA7 8.7 895 Start 161 1.1200

JHP 180 AA7 8.8 984 Max 177

Speer PHP 180 AA7 9.0 969 174

JHP 180 AA7 9.0 986 177

Horn-XTP 180 AA7 9.3 1050 Max 189

JHP-XTP, HAP, FMJ-FN 180 AA7 9.4 1000 Max 180

JHP 180 AA7 9.5 1048 189

TMJ, GD-HP 180 AA7 9.7 972 Max 175 1.1200

WOW, thanks. Did you get this info out of a book or you learned it over time making these yourself? Thanks for the list cause it helps out a bunch.

I was going to make a few JHP 180 with AA#7 of 7.7 grains and slowly work myself up to about 8.5 grains. I am going with 1.135 OAL because thats what the Accurate loading data says.

Edited April 30, 2011 by JayJayJay

[dugout]

At this point I am more worried about blowing my hands off. I have been slowly working on this for a month now and still have not made a single bullet. i mess around with the powder, than I mess with the depth of the bullet, I then mess with the proper crimp and then I take the bullet apart. I have yet put in any live primers or test fired any of the rounds. I have not gotten a crono yet and at this stage of the game I am just trying to make some good range ammo for fun. It is just frustrating because there is not a book out there that tells you every bullet, or powder to build a round. Thanks guys.

Okay so what you're doing is described as "Thrashing" but you are not getting anywhere. To be honest this forum and the history of informative posts is the "book" you need.

Just read post #3 above and absorb what HP Jack is telling you? There is a logic and step by step process to this. the process keeps you from going in circles, "thrashing". You need to understand Why before the What will make sense to you.

Check your mags and chamber for OAL, do this in steps, long to short until you know max. Then drop back .005 and start there. Set your seating die and forget it for now.

Size and prime a case, simple right?

Now set your powder funnel so it bells the case .010, lock it down. why? More work hardens the brass and less scrapes the bullets.

Start throwing charges until you have your starting load. Weigh them. Load 5 and chrono them. Adjust your powder to make major.

Set your crimp die so the case measures .420 right at the lip. Why? this is tight but not so tight it won't seat in the chamber on the case lip.

You need a chronograph. There is no such thing as "Simple Range Ammo" so put that out of your mind. It cost the same to do it right so do it right. The guy who blows up his pistol is just making simple range ammo. Don't be that guy. again, understand why you are doing what you are doing. Understand why folks choose to load long. they don't do it because it's cool or for looks. They do it for function. Many of the frames we shoot were designed as 45ACP and like a longer round up to 1.250. For your Glock just load to the spec for 40S&W, you will be fine. Just realize load data must, MUST, take OAL into consideration. Try long powder charges in short loads and look-out; Trouble is coming!

Why can't we just give you all the answers? Because every pistol, every barrel, every lot of powder, are all different so we all go through "the process" and develop loads. it takes time and effort but you will get better at it with time and become more comfortable as you learn.

[JayJayJay]

At this point I am more worried about blowing my hands off. I have been slowly working on this for a month now and still have not made a single bullet. i mess around with the powder, than I mess with the depth of the bullet, I then mess with the proper crimp and then I take the bullet apart. I have yet put in any live primers or test fired any of the rounds. I have not gotten a crono yet and at this stage of the game I am just trying to make some good range ammo for fun. It is just frustrating because there is not a book out there that tells you every bullet, or powder to build a round. Thanks guys.

Okay so what you're doing is described as "Thrashing" but you are not getting anywhere. To be honest this forum and the history of informative posts is the "book" you need.

Just read post #3 above and absorb what HP Jack is telling you? There is a logic and step by step process to this. the process keeps you from going in circles, "thrashing". You need to understand Why before the What will make sense to you.

Check your mags and chamber for OAL, do this in steps, long to short until you know max. Then drop back .005 and start there. Set your seating die and forget it for now.

Size and prime a case, simple right?

Now set your powder funnel so it bells the case .010, lock it down. why? More work hardens the brass and less scrapes the bullets.

Start throwing charges until you have your starting load. Weigh them. Load 5 and chrono them. Adjust your powder to make major.

Set your crimp die so the case measures .420 right at the lip. Why? this is tight but not so tight it won't seat in the chamber on the case lip.

You need a chronograph. There is no such thing as "Simple Range Ammo" so put that out of your mind. It cost the same to do it right so do it right. The guy who blows up his pistol is just making simple range ammo. Don't be that guy. again, understand why you are doing what you are doing. Understand why folks choose to load long. they don't do it because it's cool or for looks. They do it for function. Many of the frames we shoot were designed as 45ACP and like a longer round up to 1.250. For your Glock just load to the spec for 40S&W, you will be fine. Just realize load data must, MUST, take OAL into consideration. Try long powder charges in short loads and look-out; Trouble is coming!

Why can't we just give you all the answers? Because every pistol, every barrel, every lot of powder, are all different so we all go through "the process" and develop loads. it takes time and effort but you will get better at it with time and become more comfortable as you learn.

Thank you very much. Just got back from WALMART and got some rounds for the morning match. I will order a crono off the internet on Monday and wait for that. Now I will spend a month trying to understand what and how a crono works

Edited May 1, 2011 by JayJayJay

[Hi-Power Jack]

I have been working on this for a month now and still have not made a single bullet. i mess around with the powder, than I mess with the depth of the bullet, I then mess with the proper crimp and then I take the bullet apart.

Not sure what you mean, Jay?

You have selected the powder - and you have a range of powder to use.

You've selected the brass and the primers and the bullets. And the

OAL seating depth.

You've made all the decisions except how much powder.

I seriously recommend that you start out loading .40 MINOR - pls

do not attempt to load .40 MAJOR just yet.

Load up 10 cases with 10% less than major (if 7.7 grains is

major, load up 10 cases with 7.0 grains - scrupulously measured),

seat the bullets at 1.135", and take them to the range.

See how they feel - look at the primers - as loud/powerful as

Walmart .40's. Feed and eject properly?

If they do - try to chrono them - if you can't and they seem

to be safe (primers, loud, recoil, etc) load up 50 of them -

fire them. Check the accuracy? As good as Walmarts?

Don't try to load anything to major until you get a chrono,

or you can get hurt.

Don't use any of these loads in an IPSC match until you get

more experience/chrono levels.

Once you get this load going at minor, and they are accurate,

and feed properly, then you can think about slowly working

your load up to MAJOR, with the use of a chrono.

There, you are all done.

Good luck,

Jack

[G-ManBart]

Sorry, but I don't agree this site is the answer...it's actually part of the problem you're experiencing. People read stuff here, buy a bunch of mixed, jumbled, components, then can't understand why they can't find any data that matches what people are posting here. Often the stuff posted here was worked up to slowly, with a lot of experience behind it.

First thing after getting a couple of manuals, is to get a copy of One Book/One Caliber by Loadbooks USA (like $15 or $20). It has the data from all the major powder and bullet manufacturers listed. Then, find a combination of powder and bullets that is actually listed, go buy them....load them following the data, and you'll be fine.

Can't find any data on 180gr Winchester JHP bullets? It's listed in the Loadbooks guide I mentioned. They list that bullet with WST, 231 and WSF. When you can't find the exact bullet, find the one that is most similar in shape, start at the minimum load recommended, and slowly work up until you get the results you want, while still staying under the maximum listed for the substitute bullet.

Lastly, I'd pick a different powder. #7 is too slow for .40S&W...more recoil, more powder used, no benefits to offset those. Something like WSF will burn cleaner, produce higher velocity (if you want it), and you'll use a lot less of it. R,

[noylj]

Except for working up into the over-max range, a Win JHP=Hdy JHP=Rem JHP=MG JHP=zero JHP, etc.

Same goes for FMJ or lead.

In the real world, the important data for any bullet is construction and weight. Many reloading manuals group all their jacketed bullets of a given weight (+/-2gn) with the same reloading data.

Lead is different construction and pressure rise and peak will be different from jacketed. Thin plated bullets fall between lead and jacketed and, as far as I am concerned, you should start them with the same starting load as lead bullets.

Then, there are frangible bullets and all-copper bullets that will have their own loading data.

I compile all the data in 30 years worth of manuals and Handloader Magazines that I have for the calibers that I load. I start with the lowest starting load and work up.

I load to the COL that works best in my gun (always longer than the minimum shown in the reloading manuals). There is no good reason NOT to load as long as you can, provided the rounds fit your magazine (or cylinder) and feed and chamber without problem.

The shorter the COL, the more dangerous any bullet set-back is, particularly in 9x19, .38 Super, and .40S&W.

If your sport is action shooting, then you will need to chronograph your loads because the velocity I get has very little to do with the velocity you'll get. You want to meet the power factor plus as little more velocity as possible. For this, minute of pie plate is more than accurate enough.

If, like me, you shoot recreationally and for accuracy, you will probably never load to max. Some hope to be alright by using someone else's load to meet power factor and they use the exact same COL as the source data so they hopefully will still make P.F. They really need to get a chronograph and learn to load for their own guns.

Other than that, the target speaks to me and I have no interest in the velocity.

[JayJayJay]

Thank you guys, the information has been great. I just got back from the range and was able to find most of my brass, it is in the tumbler as of right now. I also have some other brass I didnt fire and I hope that is not an issue reloading . I will bring back the other container of #7 for clays tomorrow. Unfortunately I have one bottle of #7 opened and I will use it until it is gone and then move on to clays. Most of you guys have been very helpful and again I want to thank you for all your advice and experience in reloading. I do plan on just loading minor loads in the short term until I get a crono. I don't intend to be in any real matches that crono ammo any time soon. The local matches at the local club I go to do not crono ammo so that is why I will stick to minor loads. In the mean time I will take my time and go slow as the reloading books say. I will work from a starting load and work my way up slowly.

Edited May 1, 2011 by JayJayJay

[G-ManBart]

Do yourself a favor, skip the Clays. It would be fine for Minor loads, or Major if you really know what you're doing, but in the beginning, make it easy on yourself. Pick something like Titegroup, WSF, N320 or similar and don't mess with ultra slow (#7) or ultra fast (Clays) powders.

[JayJayJay]

Do yourself a favor, skip the Clays. It would be fine for Minor loads, or Major if you really know what you're doing, but in the beginning, make it easy on yourself. Pick something like Titegroup, WSF, N320 or similar and don't mess with ultra slow (#7) or ultra fast (Clays) powders.

Well that 1lb of #7 cost me 30 bucks so I am going to use it untill I get another powder, how bad can it be? I am used to factory ammo with a power factor well over 175 at the store so it can not be that bad, right? Should I just get rid of it?

[JayJayJay]

Does it really matter if I get the $89 dollar crono or the $139 one? They all do the same thing right?

[dugout]

Does it really matter if I get the $89 dollar crono or the $139 one? They all do the same thing right?

Do your self a favor and get one of these:

Competition Electronics (CEI-3900)

Pro chrono Pal

[gng4life]

Does it really matter if I get the $89 dollar crono or the $139 one? They all do the same thing right?

Well...they are supposed to but not always. I was just at Area 6 when one of the guys at the chrono stage was complaining about his power factor. He lives in the area, shoots about the same time of day, etc., etc., so most factors being the same but his loads with the M2 at the chrono stage was much higher. I think he said he purchased a Shooting Chrony (about $90) and he was really unhappy with it. I have heard lots of stories like this but some could be due to people not knowing how to use them, knowing the conditions, etc.

However, the Shooting Chrony was my first chrono about 20 years ago and it seemed okay for what I was doing. I now have an M2 and Pact XP, which are both excellent. In fact, the load I used at Area 6 I worked up with my Pact (since it has the timer and chrono, just easier to carry to the range), I was at 173 PF at home in SC. When I chrono'ed at Area 6, I was 172.6 - pretty close.

The addage, "you get what you pay for" could apply here but I'm not knocking the Shooting Chrony, just trying to relay some experience so you can make an informed decision.

Good luck...

[JayJayJay]

At this point I am more worried about blowing my hands off. I have been slowly working on this for a month now and still have not made a single bullet. i mess around with the powder, than I mess with the depth of the bullet, I then mess with the proper crimp and then I take the bullet apart. I have yet put in any live primers or test fired any of the rounds. I have not gotten a crono yet and at this stage of the game I am just trying to make some good range ammo for fun. It is just frustrating because there is not a book out there that tells you every bullet, or powder to build a round. Thanks guys.

Now set your powder funnel so it bells the case .010, lock it down. why? More work hardens the brass and less scrapes the bullets.

Start throwing charges until you have your starting load. Weigh them. Load 5 and chrono them. Adjust your powder to make major.

Set your crimp die so the case measures .420 right at the lip. Why? this is tight but not so tight it won't seat in the chamber on the case lip.

I am set at .418 at the lip for the crimp and I made 30 rounds to test. Is the crimp going to be ok or should I start over again?

[Jon Merricks]

Shoot them and see. If the bullet do not get pushed back during feeding they are fine.

[dugout]

I am set at .418 at the lip for the crimp and I made 30 rounds to test. Is the crimp going to be ok or should I start over again?

As you are loading try to work it back out to .420. There are two opposed considerations. You want the case mouth tight to hold the bullet securely, but you want it big enough to firmly contact the forward end of the chamber.

Too tight there is not enough support for the round in the chamber and this can cause miss or light FP hits as the round is not supported. You have a lot to work with, approx .020, so it's not super critical. .420 is a good place to be most of the time but brass, bullets, and chambers are all different so YMMV.

[JayJayJay]

I am set at .418 at the lip for the crimp and I made 30 rounds to test. Is the crimp going to be ok or should I start over again?

As you are loading try to work it back out to .420. There are two opposed considerations. You want the case mouth tight to hold the bullet securely, but you want it big enough to firmly contact the forward end of the chamber.

Too tight there is not enough support for the round in the chamber and this can cause miss or light FP hits as the round is not supported. You have a lot to work with, approx .020, so it's not super critical. .420 is a good place to be most of the time but brass, bullets, and chambers are all different so YMMV.

Well I put those bullets in the bullet puller, took them apart and now they are all at about .20 crimp. Was it ok to reuse the JHP bullets or do I have to get rid of them (trash them)?

Edited May 5, 2011 by JayJayJay

[dugout]

Well I put those bullets in the bullet puller, took them apart and now they are all at about .20 crimp. Was it ok to reuse the JHP bullets or do I have to get rid of them (trash them)?

I would have shot them but yes, you can reuse them.