Another "help me build my 3gun upper" thread

[Kevin Holman]

I have been reading and searching for a while... but I still have some specific questions:

I am wanting to build a new 3gun upper/rifle. Been shooting for a little while in Tac Optics, currently running a WOA 18" mid barrel, LaRue 13.2" rail, PRI/MSTN brake, Burris 1-4, VLTOR carbine stock, RRA 2-stage trigger. Gun is stable but not extremely so.

I realize now that I should have gone with a rifle length gas system. Here are my goals:

1. Reliability. I have seen WAY too many "race guns" crap the bed at matches. I am not interested in tweaking the stability/soft shooting factor to such a level that reliability is a factor.

2. Softer recoil. I'd like to be able to make much faster double taps with less movement of the rifle between shots caused by recoil.

3. Keep weight to a minimum. Not saying it needs to be ultralight or anything - I just want to be able to point quickly and swing without momentum.

4. Budget conscious. I just got married and need to make affordable choices. :-)

I have ordered a WOA 18" SPR barrel with rifle gas as the base platform. My questions are around handguard, brake, bolt carrier, stock/buffer, and trigger.

On the rail, I am looking at these:

Troy 15" TRX extreme

Carbon Arms Firebird 15" kit

PRI Carbon 15" forearm

I am leaning toward the TRX because it is cheaper, and I feel will take more abuse, and all have similar weights, but am open to suggestions.

On the brake... I see so many in use at the matches. I just want something that is very efficient. I dont see many (read any) people running my PRI/MSTN. I know this is very personal preference... but surely someone can recommend the most typical brake used? I am thinking going with JP or Surefire.

On the bolt carrier, my inclination is to go with a stock carrier for my known reliability. Will using a low mass carrier make that much difference (not going to use an adjustable gas block) and will a low mass carrier reduce reliability potential? Big unknown to me there.

On the stock/buffer - I assume that along with a rifle length gas system on the barrel, you are also running a rifle length buffer tube? My plan was to experiment with using a rifle length tube, standard rifle buffer/spring, and then an old A1 rifle stock, or a PRS stock I already have on another rifle. Open to suggestions here which are recoil reducing but no impact on reliability.

On the trigger. I have been using RRA 2-stages for years. I won a Geissele SSA at the last match, so I was planning on running that. I know some swear by single stage triggers, but I am not thinking this matters all that much? I am not opposed to selling the SSA for a different trigger if there is a good advantage. I havent shot anything except a tuned RRA 2-stage in years.

Thanks for any feedback. Especially if it's based on knowledge and experience!

Edited April 24, 2011 by Kevin Holman

[Jesse Tischauser]

I have a PRI handguard on my CTR-02. I have handled the Carbon Arms and a Troy. I'd go carbon fiber for sure. Durability won't be an issue. The carbon fiber hand guards are super light even moreso than the Troy.

The JP break is good. I'm headed to my gunsmith right now to have a rolling thunder brake installed because they ate better.

The low mass carriers do make a difference. Reliability always goes down when you remove material but these things are good to go.

I have 4 JP triggers. I don't see any reason to try anything else. I never shot a two stage personally but most guys that like them or that ate used to them don't end up liking single stage triggers.

Edited April 24, 2011 by jtischauser

[VinceU1]

I went with the DPMS rifle length carbon forend on a rifle length gas system. It's on backorder status from Midway and is $82. Thing weighs like 7oz and is a bunch lighter than the aluminum forend I had been using. Also went with a Lund break because of the two articles Patrick Kelly did in Front Sight. Also because I'd never used anything but an A2 type flashhider. Also, I got the Lund because everybody else's everything were sold out and Chris Patty had them. When I finally got to shoot the rifle I found that it swung much more easily from target to target. As far as triggers, I went with a RRA two stage match trigger because it felt like the trigger in a 1911. Little bit of take up and then trip the trigger. I'm using a stock BCG becuase I'm not proficient enough to tell the difference between a light weight BCG and a stock one.

HTH.

[caz41]

Go with JP for the BC, trigger, and buffer. You will not be disappointed. As far as the brake goes I have used the rolling thunder, JP, Miculek, and Surefire and I honestly can't tell any difference to speak of between them. Some may say otherwise but I don't see it.

[whistlepig]

Ref your intended use, I say go JP on the brake. The surefire is very well made, but remember it's intended use isn't as an awesome brake... as far as the trigger goes, I will give you $25 for the Geissele SSA

They are SWEET..... I put one in a precision AR.

[MarkCO]

Go with JP for the BC, trigger, and buffer. You will not be disappointed. As far as the brake goes I have used the rolling thunder, JP, Miculek, and Surefire and I honestly can't tell any difference to speak of between them. Some may say otherwise but I don't see it.

Agreed. I have JP triggers and LMOS parts in all of my ARs. I've tried all the comps mentioned and I am currently using the Nordic Corvette. Half the price, half the weight, solid performance...

On the handguard, of course I think the Carbon Arms Feather is the best. However, the Firebird nut is a tad heavier than some of the other systems, read post #13 in this thread Firebird Barrel Nut Post to see why I use them on all of my rifles.

[fiddler]

I bought a used rifle with a Bennie Cooley Comp on it. Out to about 100 yds the dot never moves off the target. YMMV of course.

[mpeltier]

I have been reading and searching for a while... but I still have some specific questions:

I am wanting to build a new 3gun upper/rifle. Been shooting for a little while in Tac Optics, currently running a WOA 18" mid barrel, LaRue 13.2" rail, PRI/MSTN brake, Burris 1-4, VLTOR carbine stock, RRA 2-stage trigger. Gun is stable but not extremely so.

I realize now that I should have gone with a rifle length gas system. Here are my goals:

1. Reliability. I have seen WAY too many "race guns" crap the bed at matches. I am not interested in tweaking the stability/soft shooting factor to such a level that reliability is a factor.

2. Softer recoil. I'd like to be able to make much faster double taps with less movement of the rifle between shots caused by recoil.

3. Keep weight to a minimum. Not saying it needs to be ultralight or anything - I just want to be able to point quickly and swing without momentum.

4. Budget conscious. I just got married and need to make affordable choices. :-)

I have ordered a WOA 18" SPR barrel with rifle gas as the base platform. My questions are around handguard, brake, bolt carrier, stock/buffer, and trigger.

On the rail, I am looking at these:

Troy 15" TRX extreme

Carbon Arms Firebird 15" kit

PRI Carbon 15" forearm

I am leaning toward the TRX because it is cheaper, and I feel will take more abuse, and all have similar weights, but am open to suggestions.

On the brake... I see so many in use at the matches. I just want something that is very efficient. I dont see many (read any) people running my PRI/MSTN. I know this is very personal preference... but surely someone can recommend the most typical brake used? I am thinking going with JP or Surefire.

On the bolt carrier, my inclination is to go with a stock carrier for my known reliability. Will using a low mass carrier make that much difference (not going to use an adjustable gas block) and will a low mass carrier reduce reliability potential? Big unknown to me there.

On the stock/buffer - I assume that along with a rifle length gas system on the barrel, you are also running a rifle length buffer tube? My plan was to experiment with using a rifle length tube, standard rifle buffer/spring, and then an old A1 rifle stock, or a PRS stock I already have on another rifle. Open to suggestions here which are recoil reducing but no impact on reliability.

On the trigger. I have been using RRA 2-stages for years. I won a Geissele SSA at the last match, so I was planning on running that. I know some swear by single stage triggers, but I am not thinking this matters all that much? I am not opposed to selling the SSA for a different trigger if there is a good advantage. I havent shot anything except a tuned RRA 2-stage in years.

Thanks for any feedback. Especially if it's based on knowledge and experience!

Forearm, I recomend the PRI 15". Order it without the holes,and natural (not painted) it will save you a bit of money and may end up bieng the better value. Also buy a roll of 2" non skid tape at Home Depot to stick on the forearm. It will protect it from dings and give a very positive non-slip surface, and believe it or not help keep it cool from the sun. (The sun will heat up carbon fiber like a solar panel if it is left uncovered)

Muzzle break, Keep what you got, and save the money for other things.

Bolt Carrier, JP LMOS, with their spring and buffer (Rifle) AND the adjustable gas block. If you adjust it properly and lock the screw acordingly and use quality ammo, there will not be any reliability issues. Most reliability issues I have seen at matches with any rifle came down to Ammo or lack of normal maintenance. It baffles my mind that some will pay a lot of money for a game rifle and not maintain or feed it properly.

Stock, use the PRS you have on another rifle.

Trigger, use that Geisselle you just won.

Edited April 25, 2011 by mpeltier

[bkoenig]

I'm pretty new to the 3 gun scene, but in all the matches I've attended it seems like the vast majority of malfunctions were mag related. Buy quality mags and make sure they're reliable.

You picked an excellent barrel. I have the same one and can't say enough good things about mine.

Edited April 25, 2011 by bkoenig

[Jadeslade]

I think mpeltier summed it up dead on. He must have read my mind.