Cross training

[Wild Gene]

Has anyone taken any of the Combat Focus Training classes? Have you found it to be beneficial to your Match shooting? Has any other type of shooting or training really benefitted your match shooting? I always have LEO's tell me "they train for real life, not competition", and kinda scratch my head (one of my best instructors is actually an active duty LEO that came to the matches and got tired of being whipped by civilians, he is now a master class shooter).

I would think any shooting would benefit somewhat, but have you found these type of classes to help or hinder your match shooting? Is it more benefit to IDPA shooters than USPSA shooters?

Thanks for your thoughts.

WG

[392heminut]

I was a LEO for 22 years and I can't say that I ever took a law enforcement type class that helped me much in my competition shooting. I am actually convinced that had I been involved in a shooting (which I never was, thank GOD!) the stuff I learned shooting action pistol would have benefited me more than anything I ever learned in a law enforcement type class. I was the department firearms instructor for over 14 years and always tried to run some kind of USPSA type course for the officers after the standard qualification course. They really liked the stages I set up, and I actually got two officers into USPSA because of it. I had one officer who was considered the department hotshot when it came to firearms that I took to a local USPSA match. He never went back to another and had the same argument about "real street type training". Fact of the matter is, there were some C class shooters there who handed him his posterior, so to say! It's been my experience that the 'I want to train for real street situations' is just an excuse used by LEO's when they see the level of gun handling skills most action pistol shooters have. My advice to any officer on the street was and still is, if you want to increase your chance of winning a gunfight on the street take up action pistol competition!

[Wild Gene]

Very interesting, that reflects one of my instructors feelings and experiences exactly, the exception being he took his USPSA shooting and learned how he could benefit from it, unlike the shooter in your example. Thank you.

What I get out of that statement is that you feel that any shooting is going to help, but match shooting is going to benefit defensive shooting more than the other way around? Did you see any negatives to defense shooting when it came time to shooting matches? Again, I am talking more USPSA than IDPA. I am also, in no way, trying to take away from LEO training or ability. They are faced with much tougher decisions than "paper or steel first".

Thanks again.

WG

[392heminut]

The biggest benefit I see to match shooting when it comes to law enforcement training is the stress factor involved. You just don't get that with 'on the whistle draw and fire 2 rounds in 3 seconds'. Unless things have changed in the last nine years since I retired, there is very little movement or decision making in most law enforcement courses of fire, and multiple targets are fairly rare.

The only negative I have experienced might be the non-emphasis in the use of cover in USPSA matches, but it was never really an issue with me. I never had a problem using cover on the street if I thought the person I was dealing with might be armed. Tactical training should not take a backseat to any other training an officer receives, but action pistol shooting can go a long way in enhancing that training!

[BigBets]

As a police officer and active uspsa member a couple things shine thru. First, the average c to b class uspsa competitor can likely run with and most times easily smoke even some of the best cop shooters on a uspsa course. The main difference I find is police and tactical type shooting is not so much about running thru a stage and more using cover and taking the time to maximize advantage over the bad guy.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I did a Google search on "Combat Focus Training" and watched the YouTube video. I don't think that type of training would help your match shooting as much as a class that focuses on match shooting.

I wanted to add that the "Combat Focus Shooting" program is designed by Rob Pincus, who is very respected in the defensive training field.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Bill Nesbitt

[392heminut]

Big Bets I agree with what you are saying about police/tactical type shooting 100%. My point about action pistol competition was that the stress of timed competition combined with movement and decision making gave me a definite edge in my abilities on the street. I never had a problem with slipping into the 'run & gun' mentality in a real life tactical situation but did have the confidence in my abilities to know I could handle the situation. I experienced two incidents during my career that could have ended in a justifiable shooting, but due to the fact that I was confident in my abilities I let things go just a little longer than someone less sure of himself might have, and avoided having to pull the trigger.

I'm sure that Rob Pincus' Combat Focus Shooting program is an excellent class and I am not trying to take anything away from this type of training. It's a very useful tool for law enforcement but in answer to Wild Gene's original question, probably would not be of much benefit to an action pistol shooter.

Edited March 24, 2011 by 392heminut

[Wild Gene]

I did a Google search on "Combat Focus Training" and watched the YouTube video. I don't think that type of training would help your match shooting as much as a class that focuses on match shooting.

I wanted to add that the "Combat Focus Shooting" program is designed by Rob Pincus, who is very respected in the defensive training field.

I really respect Rob! I love his television segments. That is why it the class looks so interesting to me. I am just curious about what I could expect out of it on the USPSA side.

I really enjoy the comments so far.

WG

[Lee G]

The combat related classes I've attended focus on reliable execution under stress. This means everything is approached from the perspective of gross motor skills as opposed to fine motor skills and "combat effective" accuracy. You won't use a slide release except to clear a double feed. Most teach stripping the magazine out of the well during an emergency reload instead of pressing the release and hoping it falls free. You will not discard a magazine with rounds unless clearing a malfunction. Drills include shooting from retention, point shooting and other engagements like shooting through walls etc. that you want see in USPSA. The best instructor I ever had really got in the weeds on shooting from different ranges with different techniques. For shooting within striking distance we were concentrating on shooting from the hip into the target's pelvic girdle. Bottom line is I don't think it will help you with anything other than fundamentals of shooting as far as the sport goes. With that said I highly recommend taking a class like this. You will gain a good understanding of the difference between the sport and survival.

[ima45dv8]

Folks, I can appreciate defensive training as much as anyone (a self-professed "TactiBilly in USPSA clothing" here), but I think we've strayed about as far as the Forum Guidelines will permit. When we get to the specifics of how to properly place a debilitating shot to the pelvic girdle, we're done.

Intent

This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged.

Closed.