GrumpyOne Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I don't think anyone is saying it's the gun and not the brass....I think what they are saying is that some guns are more susceptible to Kabooms when using bad brass....Look at an old Colt 38 Super....They were notorious for blowing out the brass because of unsupported chambers (Ever hear of "Super Face"?), but when was the last time you heard of someone blowing out a case in a new 38 super with a modern chamber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 that and people stopped using powders like blue dot that went crazy pressure wise when you pushed on them....and the power factor is down to 165 instead of 175. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTray Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Howdy All Newbie to the Enos forum (Thanks to MarkCo) Ive reloaded for years but primarily for my .357 python. (not picky on ammo) And my technical skills were never tested. Started reloading for my G22 (stock) and a G21SF (fire dragon barrel) So heres a couple initial questions for the crew: *what does a weak or flawed case web look like exactly? Any pics would be great * What causes a case to set back? I assume OAL of brass is not to spec? OR OAL of the entire shell is to great... OR bad sizing/crimp Thanks in advance JT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Howdy All Newbie to the Enos forum (Thanks to MarkCo) Ive reloaded for years but primarily for my .357 python. (not picky on ammo) And my technical skills were never tested. Started reloading for my G22 (stock) and a G21SF (fire dragon barrel) So heres a couple initial questions for the crew: *what does a weak or flawed case web look like exactly? Any pics would be great * What causes a case to set back? I assume OAL of brass is not to spec? OR OAL of the entire shell is to great... OR bad sizing/crimp Thanks in advance JT Sorry for taking so long to get to this thread again...A weak or flawed case web is generally very hard to determine, as sometimes there is no visual indication that there is a flaw. Look for rings around the case, near the extractor groove, that if you rub your fingernail or a knife blade across them, you can feel it. These I toss. Set back is generally caused when the round is being fed from the mag and encounters the feed ramp with some force, causing the bullet to be pushed farther into the case, reducing the available volume of the case and increasing pressure when fired. The most common denominator causing bullet set back is a lack of neck tension between the case and bullet. Since auto cartridges generally use a taper crimp (most auto's headspace on the case mouth, so a roll crimp is no good for an auto), the bullet is just held in place by the neck tension of the case. Too little crimp and the bullet gets set back when loading into the chamber, too much and it deforms the bullet, causing accuracy problems. Hope this answered your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The sad truth is that whenever a gun blows with handloads the single most common cause is a double charge. Operator error on the handloader's part, not a weakness of the materiel. I have seen several blown Glocks over the years (never had one myself, knock wood) and in every case the frame was lunched. I have personally blown two casings in a steel-framed 1911 .45 (this was, oh, 20-plus years ago, back in the days when I didn't know enough not to use SEVERELY undersized, crappy Remington bullets as loading components - shudder) and in both instances, aside from the magazine being trashed, there was absolutely no damage to the gun. Granted I was running Pachmayr grip panels with the steel inserts at the time. Pound the grips back down flat, stick in a new mag and drive on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Too little crimp and the bullet gets set back when loading into the chamber I'm sorry but that's simply not true. Crimp doesn't prevent bullet setback; the far larger bullet-to-casing contact surface of the sides of the bullet inside the casing is what prevents bullet setback. If anything a severe crimp is going to cause the area under the crimp to bell outwards, interfering with bullet-to-case contact and leading to bullet setback, not preventing it. I set my handloads so that, when I pull a bullet out of a loaded round, I can barely see an impression of the case mouth into the bullet, even under a magnifying glass, and I've never had a problem with bullet setback. (Well, except in decades past when using Remington bullets....and back then I also didn't know enough not to crimp the living hell out of my handloads. Two bad things, Remington bullets + hard crimp = some pretty horrible ammo.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midvalleyshooter Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) I have had a similiar case blow out twice over many years of shooting. The first time was in the 90's when I ran a G20 10mm. I was using brass I had reloaded quite a bit and a case blew out in the unsupported area. This blew the mag out, but nothing broke. A couple years later I was running a G35 using 200 grain bullets and Clays:surprise: before we knew this combo was a hand grenade. This also blew the mag out and broke the slide lock. Same results, blew out the case in the unsupprted area. One of the reasons I like the 9mm Glocks is the barrels are more supported. I also like to use Unique in 9mm because its impossible to double charge. YMMV, Keith Edited January 23, 2011 by midvalleyshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Actually, in my experience, at the power factor we have to run our guns in USPSA and IDPA, you can't double charge a 9mm with anything. The powder will overflow the casing, which is a pretty good clue you've double charged it. If there's any powder out there with which we could double charge a casing at a 125 (USPSA)/125,000 (IDPA) plus power factor and not overflow the casing, and still be able to seat a bullet, I'd really be interested to hear about it. I say that sincerely, I'm not being sarcastic, or exaggerating to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midvalleyshooter Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Duane you may be right. But hey we have the resources of the Benos Universe so I asked: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=121648 Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTray Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 200 grain bullets and Clays:surprise: before we knew this combo was a hand grenade. Why is this specific combo an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midvalleyshooter Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 200 grain bullets and Clays:surprise: before we knew this combo was a hand grenade. Why is this specific combo an issue? In those days the PF was 175. The .40 was a new thing and heavy bullets being loaded long was very new. I was running the G35 and could not load to the same OAL as the guys running S_I's and Para's. I tried using Clays and heavy lead. I found out its a touchy load with high pressure under the best of circumstances. It was a long time ago. Here is a current thread that touches on it: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63750&hl=clays&st=0 Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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